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Filed under: Masahiro Sakurai, Super Bros. Smash For 3DS, Super Smash Bros. (N64), Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, Super Smash Bros. Series

The Definitive Unused Fighters List in Smash

Please look at the updated version of the list here.

 

48 comments
  1. One nitpick: I think you got one even backwards. You say that Ice Climbers were scrapped because of 8-Player Smash, but I think it’s more likely that 8-Player Smash was added only after they had decided to cut the Ice Climbers. Sakurai mentioned that they had no trouble getting the IC to work on the Wii U, and that it was the 3DS that was the constraining factor. Once they figured that they IC had to go for the sake of the 3DS version, the developers wanted to figure out what sort of things they could do with the “freed” processing power. 8 Player Smash is what they come up with. Mind you, that is merely my speculation, but I think it is plausible.

    Other than that, this is probably the best rundown about scrapped Smash plans I’ve ever seen.

    Sheer on April 13 |
    • That is definitely possible. I think with the way that Sakurai talked about Ice Climbers in the interviews, it seemed he had already made up his mind to cut them. I found some references to them in the data, but very minor (Trophy categories being the biggest). They didn’t even have an emblem reference. 8-Player Smash has been something that Sakurai has wanted to add since Smash 64 (See Page 10 translation). I believe it was mentioned in the Melee polls too.

      Semi-related: Frostwraith at SmashBoards has speculated that custom moves and the lack of transformations are also possibly connected.

      Thanks for your comment. I’m glad that you enjoyed the article.

      PushDustIn on April 13 |
      • The one issue I have with this line of thought is that is doesn’t quite fit with the extra large stages that seem to be included mostly for 8 player Smash. Palutena’s Temple and Great Cave Offensive obviously had a lot of work put into them and are not last minute additions. If 8 player Smash was only added after Ice Climbers were cut, than why do these two stages exist?

        Spazzy_D on April 13 |
  2. The Brawl site is still available (http://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_uk/index.html), but it’s possible you were referring to a different site since I couldn’t find the information there.

    whizzer0 on April 13 |
    • PushDustIn was referring to the results from the Brawl polls which was, in fact, a different web site.

      Spazzy_D on April 13 |
  3. There was that one interview in either Famitsu or Nintendo Power where it talked about the ‘assist capsules’ in Melee where the example Sakurai gave was the birds from Duck Hunt would come out and interfere with the fighters. Also Ditto in Melee as a Pokeball Pokemon. It has animations and everything.

    DonkaFjord on April 15 |
  4. Does this add up at all to your research?

    “Early on, Nintendo asked SEGA if Sonic could be included in the game, but the Haneda company refused. It was only later, when the development of Super Smash Bros. Brawl was nearly finished, that SEGA changed its mind. This is why the game’s release was delayed.”

    I got it out of The History of Sonic the Hedgehog. I guess its possible they changed their minds between Melee and Brawl?

    Sur on April 15 |
    • I was able to find the interview scan on an archive website. I was able to read the whole magazine, so the interview does exist. This is contradicting information though. Is the History of Sonic the Hedgehog a book? Can you email me a scan or let me know the page number? I use Gmail!

      PushDustIn on April 16 |
  5. […] The “Z” number order is further proof that Jigglypuff wasn’t a priority in Brawl. Also, since there are no missing numbers in Smash 4, it could mean that the Rhythm Heaven representative didn’t get very far into development at all. Most investigation will be done into both of these topics.  […]

  6. Have you found anything on this bit? It’s a excerpt from SSBwiki’s Clone page, Trivia section:
    “Sakurai also originally planned including Leif, the protagonist of Fire Emblem: Thracia 776, the most recently released Fire Emblem games at the time, as a clone of Marth in Melee. But when Sakurai went to Intelligent Systems for approval, they gave him an early look at the in-development Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade, where Sakurai then found its protagonist, Roy, to provide a greater contrast to Marth with his fire properties and thus chose him instead, similar to why Falco was chosen over Wolf.”

    Hunch on April 19 |
    • Doing a quick search on all the Melee/ 64 reader response emails, there was no mention of Leif (リーフ). The source of the Leif apparently is the same guy that claimed that Wolf was considered for Melee. Leif did appear on the Smash 2 poll, but was the least popular Fire Emblem character (https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/03/23/if-there-were-a-smash-2-poll/).

      On Roy’s Melee Character Page (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0115/index.html) it says compared to Marth, Roy is a younger, inexperienced swordsman. But you can see his potential.

      Doing a quick Google search on Leif in DX in Japanese doesn’t turn up anything of substance either.

      PushDustIn on April 19 |
      • The original source for that appears to be Chronobound from Smashboards, who claims he found it in his research. Chronobound is an absolute obsessive Smash fan who I think the community is a little too trusting of. He seems to have little to no Japanese skills, and yet he is considered an authority on what Japanese fans think.

        G on June 18 |
        • Do you have a link to Chronobounds original post? I want to compare it to see if it’s the same post as the Neogaf guy.

          PushDustIn on June 18 |
  7. […] role (Dedede was also considered, but Sakurai didn’t want to add his own characters in Possibly false information). “Filling a role” can also be introducing a new series to the fighter lineup. 3. […]

  8. […] was a solid prediction was amount of vocal fans that are still calling for his return. He was also originally planned for Brawl, but didn’t make the cut, along with Mewtwo and Dr. Mario. Project M, the dedicated fan mod of […]

  9. […] also updated the Definitive Unused Fighter List to include the information about the cut racing […]

  10. […] I believe the Ice Climber’s were originally intended to be in Smash for (as they are the “retro rep”), but because of a variety of technical difficulties (SmashChu’s article) they didn’t […]

  11. […] It should also be noted in Super Smash Bros Brawl, the Ice Climbers were split into two files.  Sakurai has also stated that Diddy and Dixie were to be a duo character like Ice Climbers and Dixie also had a file in the game’s […]

  12. […] has a leg-up from other Japan-only characters like Takamaru who comes from a single entry. Furthermore, Lucas was always meant to join the battle. In Melee, Lucas almost replaced Ness as the sole Earthbound/Mother representative. However, given […]

  13. […] see additional stuff that was cut from Smash, please visit the Definitive Character List, or check out the Data […]

  14. […] Roy did not return for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, though files within the game make it clear that he was intended to. Roy, and Mewtwo, even had their own victory jingles. […]

  15. […] was partly delayed so they could add Sonic, the most requested character from Melee -> Brawl, once Sega gave Sakurai permission. Personally, I think people have overestimated the amount of characters that can be added into Smash […]

  16. […] Cut Content List […]

  17. http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/06/26/800/ In this article, Samurai says that he considered Heihachi from Tekken to be the Namco rep.

    WasabiHeatran on July 5 |
    • Thanks! I actually need to update this today.

      Crane043 has been working on translating this article into Japanese, and discovered that my comments about Toad/ Saki wasn’t totally correct. Plus with all the new information on Smash 4, I need to do a major edit. Give me two hours (lunch and edit time)!

      PushDustIn on July 5 |
  18. Fourth custom moves were found in the game – https://tcrf.net/Super_Smash_Bros._for_Wii_U#Unused_Custom_Moves. Your probably already know this but the article doesn’t mention it, only that they were planned.

    whizzer0 on July 16 |
    • Yeah, we translated the article that they were planned (http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/). However, I personally do not believe the evidence that Red has shown is actually conclusive evidence that they made it far into development.

      For example, Mario’s 4th custom move in the video is an “ice Fireball”. We know from the Project Proposal Slides that Mario’s 4th custom was actually a “Double Fireball”. Furthermore, the 4th custom that Red shows are very similar to the “Unused Custom” (heavy quote marks) for the DLC characters. Just like the DLC characters’ “custom move”, I believe the content that Red is showing is more akin to a glitch, than scrapped content.

      I have literally found nothing in the Wii U data dumps to suggest that 4th customs made it past the idea stage. Until more evidence can be found, I’m refraining from say they were actually implemented.

      PushDustIn on July 16 |
  19. What about Rosalina & Luma? Don’t those two function on their own as well?

    Jay on July 23 |
    • Very different from the Ice Climbers. Nana is essentially another player. In Melee and Brawl, she actually had her own fighter files too. Luma doesn’t have enough AI/ details to be considered another player.

      Source Gaming Team on July 24 |
  20. Did you just refer to Tetra as “Toon Sheik”? That is not at all accurate…

    • Toon Zelda/ Toon Sheik are obvious from their filenames. However, it’s unknown whether Toon Sheik was actually Tetra or not. It is highly likely that this is the case, as Toon Link’s design was inspired from Wind Waker and Tetra was made to be Wind Waker’s Sheik. Despite this, it is not 100% confirmed as Sakurai has never talked about this character.

      Source Gaming Team on August 5 |
  21. >20015

    lurker on August 30 |
  22. Shouldn’t Krystal be in the considered list for brawl ? Cause of the whole she only didn’t make it for being too unique and time constraints..? O.o

    Krayon on November 9 |
    • Sakurai doesn’t explicitly state that Krystal wasn’t considered. If I add her, then I would need to add Waddle Dee, Dry Bones and Baby Peach. Just that Wolf was easier to create due to the time constraints.

      From: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/

      Sakurai: It’s not that I don’t understand how that feels, but if you start saying that, it becomes “Why isn’t Waddle Dee playable?” or Dry Bones, or Baby Peach. There’d be no end to it.

      PushDustIn on November 9 |
  23. This is one of the best articles on the site, but I gotta say…

    I don’t think it’s likely that Toon Sheik was supposed to be Tetra, let alone “highly likely” as put in this article. If it were meant to be Tetra, I’m quite certain the filename would reflect that. Tetra can be considered the Wind Waker equivalent of Sheik, but she’s not Sheik.

    Furthermore, an original design for a Twilight Princess version of Sheik was created for Brawl. There’s no reason to think that they couldn’t have done the same for a Wind Waker version of Sheik.

    All in all, Toon Sheik was more likely to be exactly what was said in the files, and the chance of it being Tetra are basically 0.

    Burb on December 22 |
    • I agree with you 100%. I’ll reword that sentence to increase more doubt in the reader.

      We are working on an update to this article, trying to bring all the sources into English.

      Source Gaming Team on December 22 |
    • The twilight Princess version of Shiek wasn’t made for Brawl, it came from Twilight Princess concept art.

      Mikau on July 2 |
  24. The only thing you can surely list Geno as is considered for Brawl.

    Dan on February 24 |
  25. Something else you guys forgot to mention is a file in Brawl’s data called “mariod” which might be the team’s second attempt at making Dr. Mario a fighter.

    Octavian on March 1 |
    • I’m conflicted on this, and I even brought it up to the fine folks on TCRF Wiki. There hasn’t been a consensus on this and since the data for mariod is so little it’s very difficult to know if it was just a “debug Mario” (which is the theory) or Doctor Mario. Personally, I lean towards a second Doctor Mario as mariod is how Doctor Mario is referred to in Smash for Wii U and 3DS. I guess I should add all that information into the list though!

      I really want to recreate this whole post. Parts of it really need to be cleaned up and all the sources has been translated into English but SutaMen. Also, I’ve improved my writing since I wrote this and can just create a better post. That’ll be my next project after I finish this current one 🙂

      Source Gaming Team on March 2 |
      • What I want to know is why they would ned to make a debug version of a character when they could just use that character anyway. As for why they couldn’t use the already existing Dr. Mario data, its entirely possible that they may have deleted it along with the rest of thr forbidden seven. I guess Jigglypuff and Toon Link were luckier than we thought.

        Octavian on March 3 |
  26. Also, [“Didn’t appear as a fighter” indicates he was probably considered]… highly debatable. Shrek didn’t appear as a fighter, so he was probably considered.

    Your ruling on Geno in both games is way too generous imo.

    Dan on March 17 |
    • When I recreate this list, I’m actually adding a new category for Sonic / Snake in Melee and for Geno. I think the current classification system is a disservice for those instances.

      Source Gaming Team on March 17 |
    • I second this.

      Sakurai’s comments about him regarding Brawl basically boiled down to “I wanted it to happen but it couldn’t”. “Planned” suggests he was on the roster at some point; all we know is that Sakurai would’ve done it if he could.

      He should be under “Considered” for Brawl and not listed at all for SSB4.

      Burb on May 11 |
      • Hey Burb! This list was updated very recently. This version is going to be spoilered and updated with the newer list soon. Have you seen the new one?

        Source Gaming Team on May 11 |
        • The Definitive List of Unused Fighters in Smash – http://wp.me/p6qceR-1Vt here’s the link. Geno is under a new category, “seriously considered”

          Source Gaming Team on May 11 |
          • No, I hadn’t seen it, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

            I think this categorization is much more fitting for him.

            Burb on May 23 |
  27. Wario’s Finger Lags in His Bike Pose in 8 Player Smash
    But In Normal Mode it has Smoot Transactions

    Ville FIN on December 5 |