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Filed under: Editorial, Super Bros. Smash For 3DS, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, Super Smash Bros. Series

Final Smash Broadcast Reactions

Yesterday, the final broadcast on Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U aired, showing the last new and unannounced content for the pair of games. Director Masahiro Sakurai showed off Cloud, and along with him the two final, incredibly unexpected, characters: Corrin, the gender and politically-ambiguous hero of the just released Fire Emblem Fates, and modern SEGA and PlatinumGames icon Bayonetta. The latter in fact turned out to have been the winner of the Smash Bros. fan ballot, as she was the most popular choice in Europe, among the top five most popular choices in the United States, and when taking all regional polls into consideration was the most popular “reasonable” choice.*

* Source Gaming would like to stress that it is far from implausible that the higher polling characters were logistically or legally impossible. Some may have been from outside video games like Goku and Spongebob, both of whom Sakurai discounted as impossible, while others’ companies (Konami with Snake, for example) may have denied Nintendo use of their intellectual properties or made unacceptable demands for their use. Similarly, characters placing well on fan-made ballots did not in any way dictate their showing on the fighter ballot. See more information here.

Sakurai ended his presentation with some statistics about the game. The two new characters, the Bayonetta-specific Umbra Clock Tower stage, and two final sets of Mii Fighter costumes (the standout one being based on Geno, the Super Mario RPG character who despite his negligible fame has remained a beloved Smash Bros. favorite) collectively set the final list of characters at 58, stages at 84, music tracks at 507 (508 in Japan), and costumes and headgear at just under 200. The initial release of Smash Bros. for 3DS / Wii U was absolutely packed with content, but the extent of DLC makes it seem gargantuan, even imposing.

Nintendo and Sakurai repeatedly stressed that this was the end of downloadable content, and amidst the crazed energy there was a sense of import, particularly during a fun final sequence of footage. While Corrin and Bayonetta won’t be available until 2016, and another patch isn’t unlikely, this is it. From its announcement in mid-2012, to its succession of trailers at E3 2013, to the two Smash-centric Direct videos, to the games’ slow launch in late 2014, to the introduction of downloadable content, this iteration of Super Smash Bros. has been run by a constant stream of fan-driven promotion and energy. There’s something equally satisfying, exciting, and even lachrymose about the “hype train” rolling into its final station – especially since it managed to end the way it spent so much of its time: frenetic and shocking.

As this is a significant moment in the game’s history, we’ve gathered some of the staff at Source Gaming to respond with thoughts about not just the Broadcast itself, but the end of these games’ DLC.



When we wrote about our interests for this broadcast, I mentioned that I hoped only to be surprised. Well, time for me pick my jaw up off the floor, because despite being prepared for almost any possibility I’d have never even begun to imagine what we were getting. While I did correctly predict Geno’s fate (still a momentous event, considering his position among Smash fans), and some of my ideas about how Bayonetta could work did come to fruition, it wasn’t like I seriously imagined the latter to actually happen. That the Umbra Witch turned out to be the winner was similarly shocking, though less so in retrospect; short-lived “cargo cults” for fighters have sprung up for fans of this series like clockwork, but she managed to remain consistently popular. She looks fantastic, and like all the downloadable newcomers it’s great that Sakurai has managed to keep coming up with nutty ideas.

As for the other newcomer, I was initially fairly disappointed at Corrin – a sixth Fire Emblem character? – but those utterly mind-boggling lance, water, and biting moves quickly won me over. I’ll cop to being less excited about the character specifically than entirely accidental references to my two favorite horror television series of 2015: the person who turns into a dragon, and the hero with a chainsaw on his arm. And hey, one of my biggest wishes was for more music to be added to pre-existing stages, even if I would have liked more than two (admittedly quite lovely) songs.

One final note I want to bringing up. Source Gaming has repeatedly tried to emphasize a pushback against unrestrained hype – and by extension, the bullying and negativity that far too many fans do when they don’t get their way. So, please, whether or not you like these characters, or whether or not your favorite character got in, I do hope all of you remain civil and friendly, and not fall into bullying and vitriol. At the moment, though, I’m just too exhausted from finishing graduate school today and need to go to sleep, where people incessantly demanding to “croc the vote” or whatever in every single comment section fear to tread.

The match up we've been waiting for.

The match up we’ve been waiting for.


Oh. Mein. Gott. I fear that I only can write down some Fanboy-Blabbering and I don’t think I can clearly think now. After the half, everything went so fast for me and I still can’t believe what happened.

First, we saw Corrin and I really first thought “Oh my, people surely won’t like this”. It was ironic that a new Fire Emblem-Character was revealed after our Translation-Team published the FireEmblem 20th Anniversary-Interview with Sakurai. And honestly, it’s the first time I really learn to know that character, since I avoid any news on Fire Emblem Fates. I like his design and I really like his moveset. It’s not your typical Swordfighter with his transformations. Like a “Swordsmen-Transformer”. But I was not really that excited about the reveal.

Cloud looks interesting, but I did not understand his moveset clearly. He sounded for me like a character who can charge up every move he has. But maybe I misunderstood something. I really like the Geno costume & Knuckles, but I’m a bit disappointed we didn’t got Kirby Mii-Hats. I really would like a Bandana Waddle Dee Mii Hat.

But obviously, Bayonetta seriously stole the show for me. I’m a big Bayonetta fan (even owning a signed copy from Hideki Kamiya without asking my mom), but she was a character, who I thought was IMPOSSIBLE. Her moveset and appearance was a factor which made me unable to see her happening in Smash Bros. This is why I rooted more for Bandana Waddle Dee, since he was something I like AND was realistic. Bayonetta was not. And now she IS IN and I still can’t believe this happened. I think I understand now, how Final Fantasy fans felt about Cloud in Smash Bros. Her moveset looks very faithful to her moves in Bayonetta. Even a bit too faithful, since she’s even allowed to use guns, something Snake wasn’t allowed to do in Brawl. With her Witch Time, she looks broken but doesn’t every character looks too good in trailers? So I don’t mind that. And her Taunt is awesome, we can finally dance in Smash Bros. This makes, for me, the best Super Smash Bros game ever and I’m so happy about that. I thank Sakurai for including her and I’m so happy SEGA’s allowing her in Smash Bros., beating up their beloved Sonic. I better stop here, because there won’t be much more than praise, happiness and joy from me.

tl;dr: I’m the happiest guy right now and I can’t wait for February!


Eh. Bayonetta looks top tier, so she seems like she’ll be fun.

Overall, though, while I think being salty is understandable, my take on the characters chosen was less that Sakurai is biased, or is making horrible choices, but more that his selection of potential characters was actually very limited, for whatever reasons. I took “*realizable characters” to mean that there are some characters– potentially viable ones, not Shrek or Goku but someone plausible– and that character simply couldn’t make it in for legal or hardware reasons. Characters like Snake, perhaps, or others. In the end, in terms of impactful characters, there simply aren’t very many first party Nintendo characters to choose from, and most likely, of the highly demanded third parties, many of them could not be in Smash, for whatever reason. And so it seems like Sakurai chose to go in another direction– choosing a character that seems a mixture of promotion and unique moveset in Corrin, and then the most viable next third party character in Bayonetta (worth noting that Platinum and Sega both have fairly strong ties to Nintendo at this moment in time). I feel like Bayonetta wasn’t the outright winner of the ballot, but simply the most feasible choice out of, say, of the top ballot choices.

Overall, yeah, maybe a disappointment to some, but some barriers just can’t be overcome that easily.

Corrin. First Class: Prince, Second Class: Black/White Blood, Third Class: Salt Lord

Corrin. First Class: Prince, Second Class: Black/White Blood, Third Class: Salt Lord


Well, that was disappointing. I pretty much went into the direct with Shovel Knight in my mind as a worst possible scenario so I was pretty surprised to see something more disappointing than that turn up.
After 2 and a half years of speculation, the final characters seemed anticlimactic. If anything, DLC itself has been something of a let down. I can’t really understand how there would be any reasonable mentality behind it, Fire Emblem has already seen so much attention spent on it, while many other franchises have received almost nothing. I can’t help but think that these characters were chosen for Sakurai more than they were chosen for the fans. The Mii Fighter costumes were a nice little salt in the wound move. Additionally, 5 of the 7 total characters hail from RPGs, just a fun little fact for you.

Bayonetta was included as our “ballot winner”, which is kind of laughable really. I struggle to believe that a character who lacked significant hardcore support in our community, in addition to being a character who would greatly lack casual appeal and had pretty poor sales would be the most voted for character in any region. At least she brings a unique perspective to the game, unlike a certain 6th Fire Emblem character. It’s a strong possibility that not only was Corrin added as a character to promote Fire Emblem Fates, but Bayonetta was also added in attempt to bolster disappointing performances of Bayonetta 2, a game that Nintendo invested in and had little to no reward for doing so. What better way is there to promote a floundering title than to market the character to roughly 11 million people?

I tend to think that Sakurai’s main job role essentially breaks down into two different parts. One involves deciding the material (characters, stages, music etc), and the other involves deciding how that material will function in the game. Both are equally as important. While he does the latter exceedingly well, the former is becoming a big issue, and I personally hope to see a co-director for the next game to ground his unreasonable priorities.
I currently have no plans to support any of the upcoming Smash DLC. I will however continue to play and enjoy Smash Bros. in its current form, as I personally do not feel that any of the final 3 characters will increase my enjoyment of this Smash Bros entry. Sakurai is not a genie granting us with magical DLC, we are to part with our hard earned money for this content. I don’t want to support decisions I believe were made without the best interest of the fans taken into consideration.


I’m sure if you were to ask anyone in the speculation community, “What would be the worse character announcement?” many people would say, “another Fire Emblem character”. Representation wise, I hate Corrin’s inclusion. Fire Emblem simply doesn’t that need that many characters, especially when the number of fans is limited compared to other series like Legend of Zelda. Heck the latest release hasn’t sold that well in Japan, and Corrin’s inclusion was likely chosen before his game even came out in Japan. So “selling well in Japan” is not a valid reason for the additional Fire Emblem representation in my eyes. This is one character selection that I cannot defend.

If I were to defend Corrin’s inclusion it would be based on his moveset. Even though some may be quick to say “another sword fighter”, Corrin’s moveset, animations and style are all very unique. He has a lot of unique abilities and can really introduce a change of gameplay. Corrin is potentially an interesting character, which is why they picked at the end of the day. Heck, Sakurai even confirmed it himself.

Some people believe that Inklings were “held back”. I would like to quickly address this. Sakurai always approaches each Smash as his last. He doesn’t hold back characters so he can release them later. There’s characters that are too late to enter the fray, unable to be realized, not prioritized or their release timing was unlikely. I also don’t think it’s an issue of unable being to realize them due to the 3DS or even 8 Player Smash in Wii U. I think the inkling mechanic, as often described by fans would be nearly impossible to implement into a game like Smash. Something would need to be drawn back. Just like Olimar has only several Pikmin in Smash for Wii U and 3DS and slightly several more in Brawl when compared to his original game where he can have 100 of them at a time. Therefore all the fan designed ink movesets are all pipe dreams. There’s also UI design, consent (from other IPs), game balancing and tons of other potential issues. Inklings moveset didn’t hold them back. Their game not being disproven didn’t hold them back. They weren’t saved for the next Smash. Corrin was just the more appealing character to Sakurai for whatever reason.

I’m not surprised that we didn’t get Wolf. I’m not surprised we got 3 more characters as DLC. I’ve been telling people to lower their expectations for the amount of DLC for a long time now, and I feel very vindicated about that fact. As for Bayonetta winning the Smash Ballot, I do still believe in the suggestion box over popularity contest. In reality, it was a mixture of the two. Bayonetta was number 1 of “viable characters”. We have no idea what that definition includes, and more than likely some of the top picks from the community weren’t just viable for newcomer DLC. Even though I’ve constantly reminded people that online polling is rubbish, I would like to take a moment to gloat that both Bayonetta and Cloud are on my Perception of Smash DLC in Japan, Redux. So…go me.

There is one thing that I was completely off base on, and that of course was the Shovel Knight rumor. I would like to apologize to anyone who is disappointed with the lack of Shovel Knight. I want to discuss why I chose to back this rumor. The reason I backed it was because after extensively discussing it with Tamaki, and confirming that his source was legitimate, we believed that the rumor had a good chance of being legitimate. Then, a second part of the rumor came true which strengthened at least my personal faith in the rumor as it was based on very privileged information.

I chose to back it because while I’ve said since Day 4 that indies would have a hard time getting into Smash, I couldn’t ignore the reliability of the source. In the end, I felt that my mindset against indies in Smash was personal bias, and thus not a good way to judge the validity of a rumor. Again, I’m sorry if you are disappointed and I do not take the responsibility of reporting rumors and leaks lightly. Dealing with this rumor has changed my approach to rumors and my resolve that sites shouldn’t report every rumor. I hope to improve my own reporting ability in the future. I also hope I didn’t lose any of your trust as I do sincerely take reporting information very seriously.

I have more that I’d like to talk about, but I’ve only slept two hours today. It’s been a very eventful day, and I’m thankful for everyone that has supported Source Gaming over the past year. Source Gaming will still be around, and be slowly changing into a general Nintendo/gaming website in the future. Of course, we will still cover Smash, as it’s our passion and there is quite a number of articles I’d like to write/ research and translations that need to be done. Please continue to check us out and share us.  

Who says Nintendo is just for kids, amiright?

Who says Nintendo is just for kids, amiright?


I’ll keep my reaction quick, as I am still a bit worn out from our live reaction and the subsequent live podcast. The last Direct was interesting, but also a bit underwhelming. The final Smash Direct was always going to disappoint, however, since there were always going to be popular characters that just didn’t make the cut.  Corrin seems interesting, but I honestly would have preferred Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X if we were to get a character from a new game.  I definitely don’t see him as just another sword character, and am looking forward to trying him out, but still, six Fire Emblem characters is a bit much.  It honestly makes me wonder what Smash’s Fire Emblem roster will look like next game.  Very surprising inclusion to me.

Mii costumes were fun as always, Geno and Takamaru in particular look great, but I’m surprised that we didn’t see Isaac from Golden Sun or any more Square-Enix characters.  I’m also a bit upset that Midgar only has two songs, which is made even sadder due to the fact that Bayonetta is getting such a fantastic selection of music. Speaking of, Bayo looks great.  I know some people think that I was against the character if as I wrote this article, but I honestly have no issue with the character, I just didn’t think she had a huge shot of getting in.  I’m happy to be wrong, in any case.  

I am a bit sad that Wolf didn’t make it in.  Corrin proved upcoming games do matter for DLC, and Wolf was one of my Brawl favorites.  Cloud and Bayonetta do make me a bit salty about Snake, as between the two of them all of the reasons people use against Snake are covered.  Well, all except one: Konami.

With all the rumors floating around about Inklings, Shovel Knight, and other characters popular among the Smash community, yesterday’s presentation certainly took me by surprise! Even when we think he’s run out of tricks, Sakurai proved once again he always has at least one or two up his sleeve.

I am doubtless not alone in having believed a second Fire Emblem character wouldn’t join the fray as DLC, so I was just as shocked as many of you by Corrin’s inclusion. Having purchased and completed the Japanese version of Fire Emblem: Fates earlier this year, I developed an attachment to Azura. She’s a fierce female character who could introduce some cool new elements to Smash with her polearm, her singing, and her dancing. I was certain that, if a Fates character made it into Smash, it would be her. That said, after seeing the way Corrin performs and utilizes their Dragon Fang powers, I’m looking forward to playing as them.

The biggest surprise, however, was Bayonetta—and what a surprise she was! I hadn’t expected Sakurai to go into so much detail about the results of the Smash Ballot, and I certainly didn’t realize Bayonetta enjoyed such worldwide popularity. (Granted, I was all-but completely unfamiliar with her series until yesterday.) I love her sexy moves and her sassy attitude, though, and her moveset looks like a lot of fun. Her trailer had me so intrigued I immediately bought Bayonetta 1 & 2 for Wii U!

All in all, I’m really happy with the final state of Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS & Wii U, and I am extremely grateful to Sakurai and his team for all of their hard work. I realize there are a lot of people out there still salty about “obvious” characters being excluded, but I hope their disappointment won’t cause them to lose sight of how the developers have gone out of their way to provide an unprecedented amount of content for us. And if you need to learn how to show thanks to Sakurai and the gang, ask your mum.


Once again, Sakurai catches everyone off-guard. I must admit that I’m not too excited about Corrin’s inclusion and the amount of Fire Emblem characters is perhaps excessive, but that is one unique moveset he/she has and the whole dragon transformation abilities he/she has make him/her stand out positively from the rest of the cast. In the end, we play as characters, not series.

What really blew my mind was Bayonetta’s inclusion, especially coupled with the Kid Icarus themed introduction that almost made me think that either Hades or Medusa would be added. Regardless, she is a very unique character with a very flashy style that I can appreciate. It also surprised me that she was the character chosen from the ballot.

As for Mii costumes, I’ve always been somewhat indifferent to them, but there were interesting picks this time around such as Geno, Tails and Takamaru. And Knuckles. It seems that many costumes were chosen out of popular characters and there might have been some influence from the ballot. Speaking of which, I wouldn’t be surprised if it had an impact on the next game. Could any of the Mii costumes make it into the next game? One can only wonder for now.

My only big disappointment comes from the lack of Wolf, who was the character I had voted in the ballot and my most wanted DLC character. However, Mewtwo and Lucas returning were already very positive news and my only other two characters I wanted since the game was released. 2 out of 3 is not too shabby, I guess.

I also wanted to see Snake return as well as seeing content from Xenoblade Chronicles X, but I was aware that those were remote possibilities, so I don’t feel too let down in regards to their exclusion.

Overall, I don’t feel negative, as I didn’t have a lot of desires in regards to DLC in the first place. The content is solid and adds to the game, as controversial or odd as they may seem. I never felt there are any objectively right or wrong choices when it comes to picking characters for a crossover game. The fact the game manages to bring so many diverse characters together is, by itself, quite appealing, if I do say so myself, and I intend to enjoy that to the fullest, as right now, I don’t see myself following another Smash Bros. game so intensively as I’ve done with Brawl and Smash 3DS/Wii U.

SONIC HEROES! SONIC HEROES!... wait something's not right here.

SONIC HEROES! SONIC HEROES!… wait something’s not right here.


First, I should say that I am a huge fan of the series; however, my interest waned significantly with this DLC. When watching, I would think to myself, “I would rather play Heroes of the Storm.”  Once Bayonetta was shown, I immediately switched to Starcraft: Legacy of the Void. In other words, the Smash Brothers Broadcast made me want to play other games. But why?

I feel the downloadable content was not made for Super Smash Brothers fans, but for Sakurai. Corrin is the perfect example of this. Fire Emblem already has five characters, but a sixth was added.  In 2008 Sakurai’s GDC presentation, he stated that “Distribution among the franchises is also taken into consideration.” If that is true, why was Corrin added over other characters? Xenoblade Chronicles X is in the same position Sakurai described for Fire Emblem Fates, and Xenoblade as a series has one characters: Shulk. The only reason Corrin was added is because Sakurai is a huge Fire Emblem fan.  Also, consider Ryu. Sakurai has said little of his inclusion, but during an interview with Famitsu, he stated “It’s pretty difficult. If I keep making Smash, I get to work on interesting things like Ryu, but if I leave, I don’t know if the staff could do it by themselves.” In other words, if he keeps making Smash, he will get to work on a plethora of different characters. He added Ryu because he can say he worked on Ryu in a game. The same is true for Cloud. While Cloud has been a popular character, this is true of a plethora of Nintendo characters. The reason these characters are in is because Sakurai wanted to work on them, not because they would add to the game.

In the case of Bayonetta, I would have been more interested if DLC wasn’t already crammed with third party characters. I question the ballot results because they did not give us a full picture. Bayonetta was top in Europe and Top 5 in the US. But the US is a bigger region for Smash, historically. Those results would weigh more heavily for the US. So are we to really believe that the US voted only for Shrek and Spongebob? And what about Japan’s votes? Without real information (at least ranking), we can’t know how the ballot really worked, and I expect something will never be released for just that reason.  A friend of mine made in interesting point in that he thought Bayonetta was chosen earlier and was tacked on to the ballot to justify her. This would make some sense as she looks almost complete despite the ballot only ending in October.

My biggest complaint with the DLC, as a whole, is that Sakurai is afraid of Nintendo content.  The direct made me want to play Heroes of the Storm instead. The reason I am become more interested in Heroes of the Storm is because Blizzard is not shying away from their own content, they are embracing it. Sakurai is not embracing Nintendo content and is instead adding characters he wants to work on. This is why I feel it may be time for Sakurai to turn in the towel. It’s clear that no one questions his choices and he chooses characters based on what he wants, not what fans want.  

Despite only having three major series (soon 4), Blizzard is able to create a large, diverse roster that celebrate its own properties.

Despite only having three major series (soon 4), Blizzard is able to create a large, diverse roster that celebrate its own properties.

My concern is that there will be a fire erupting within the core which could forever damage the Super Smash Brothers series. Even before Cloud’s announcement, a lot of fans wanted more Nintendo characters, but it’s clear fans are not getting them.  Super Smash Brothers is a Nintendo focused game, especially with the 49 Nintendo characters, but Sakurai has added 6 third party characters. I do think there is some fatigue in terms of guest character, and there is little they will add to the next game. Third party characters ultimately detract from the celebration of Nintendo. The issue is that more third party characters may alienate Nintendo fans who are playing the game for its characters. Both Cloud and Bayonetta have been controversial, and I believe it is for this reason.

A top comment on r/Nintendo discussing the Direct. By focusing too much on other characters, Sakurai runs the risk of alienating fans.

A top comment on r/Nintendo discussing the Direct. By focusing too much on other characters, Sakurai runs the risk of alienating fans.

The reason I like Heroes of the Storm is because it has integrity. It says “We know you’ve come here for Blizzard and we will deliver a Blizzard experience.” Smash Bros believe that it needs to focus on other people’s characters to keep fans interest.  But Heroes of the Storm proves that is absolutely not that case. I think someone else should take the reigns and for Sakurai to move into an advisory role. I’m sure many fans would be eager to see him work on something else as well, and I am sure he gets tired of the gruelling development.  There will now be 55 characters already, so there will have to be cuts. Focusing on Nintendo content will be the more practical and safe direction.

nocturnal YL

I feel mildly positive about this presentation. As individual characters, each of the three fighters showcased looks fun to play as. I did not have any character I want in particular, and I never thought my last remaining wanted character (anyone from Golden Sun) would join anyway, so I had nothing to lose, so to speak. If anything, I’m relieved that the roster is finalized, and so we can finally stop speculating. Personally, I’m also happy that the overall theme of Smash (at least, this iteration of Smash) is not compromised: a mix between Nintendo contents and a few notable non-Nintendo characters from major Japanese publishers — although I understand that some do not see Smash this way.

I was neutral on Cloud in terms of his ability. I like it overall, although I find it weird to see his Limit gauge not always visible. He also seems a bit hard to use, but time will tell if that is the case. It’s a tad off-topic, but I just wish something similar to his Blade Beam is available to Ike too, perhaps to replace Eruption, to make Ragnell feel more like itself.

While I don’t like Bayonetta’s character design in her own games, I have to say her implementation in Smash looks great. Her control of time (more powerful than Shulk’s, too) looks interesting, and I like how they managed to incorporate both her use of four guns and all those special effects in the game. I doubt seeing her will convince me to get Bayonetta 2, but if anything, I get an interesting character.

As for Corrin, I feel mixed-to-positive. On one hand, I’m a big Fire Emblem fan, so naturally I’m excited (again), but on the other hand, I do agree when people say there are too many Fire Emblem characters in Smash. I maintain my stance that Smash is not a political map between the various Nintendo series, though. Instead of wanting removals, I simply want to see more fighters added to series like Zelda and DK.

Anyway, the character falls somewhere between being faithful to the original (Dragon Fang!) and exercising the creative license, which I like. I’m a tad disappointed, but fully expected, that they don’t use any of the promoted class weapons (tomes and staves). After all, Ike never used axes. (But we can still recreate Ike vs Black Knight with the Hammer item!) Still, I wished Corrin would use staves to draw enemies near, freeze them, or even heal teammates.

If anything, I’m excited for the opportunities to imagine my own fights: Ike and Bayonetta fought deities, so I want to make them battle Corrin and Palutena here. Cloud would (obviously) fight Link, as well as Shulk. And I’ll pose Corrin’s Final Smash trophy with Xerneas. Just thinking about those makes me wish February would come sooner.

And one final thing: one of my wishes came true in the form of ‘Lost in Thoughts All Alone’, the main theme of FE Fates.

A long time coming

A long time coming


Well that was certainly unexpected. I went into this direct with low expectations; Shovel Knight and Inklings. What we got was very surprising, as those who watched our live reaction could tell, and thanks to that I cannot say I am disappointed. Now would those have been my picks? Not at all, especially Corrin, but I am not upset by it – only upset that we have to wait until February before I can actually try them. Let’s do this piece by piece though.

Corrin  was a very big initial surprise. Both DLC smash directs have started with a Fire Emblem character. While I am not particularly interested in Corrin as a character I won’t deny he does look fun and he is not like other sword-fighters. Most of his moves involve turning his body into a dragon which is great. Sure he has a sword but so does Ganondorf in his taunt and customs. Is Ganondorf a sword-wielder then? If people thought that then they would be happier with his moveset. As it is, another Fire Emblem rep is very overkill but Corrin looks fun at least so I guess I am not completely disappointed.

Cloud and Midgar were exactly as I expected so no comment. However, this is the first time I got excited about Mii costumes because I finally got my main man Takamaru represented. I will actually buy this costume (and maybe Knuckles just for the laughs). The rest are ok although Geno is a very interesting choice. Hiis inclusions shows that Sakurai is aware of fan favourites and is trying to make them happy. Which makes it even stranger that we got no Isaac or Dixie Kong costumes. We got K.Rool ages ago so you think Sakurai might make those fans happy by at least acknowledging the characters in some way. Oh well, maybe next game.

Finally we got Bayonetta who looks amazing. I do believe that Bayonetta is the ballot winner. Just like Shovel Knight and Shantae, Bayonetta had a lot of fan support at the beginning of the ballot but it seemed to drizzle out later on. In my opinion, they chose the ballot winner last July which means that those initial votes really mattered and Bayonetta was significant then. Her games have not sold that well but she is still well known just as a character. She also looks a lot fun and her witch time looks pretty broken, but at least it is not a traditional counter. Her final smash is also pretty unique and they perfectly captured the ability to rack up combos in her original game. Come her release, do not be surprised to see her appear in the top ranks of the tier lists.

It was a bitter-sweet ending to Smash DLC. There is no more after this, it has been confirmed. As a way to go out however I think it went great because it was so Sakurai. There was so much surprise value in this direct that I cannot help but treat it highly. Cloud was exciting because he was unexpected and Bayonetta alone absolutely stole the show. Brave Sakurai, now take a long deserved rest.


Well, I think I’m going to the be in the minority here when I say that this direct significantly exceeded my expectations. This has to do with many things, but ultimately it boils down to this: I was genuinely surprised, the characters are unique, and I actually want to get the DLC. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve bought all the DLC before, but it was mostly because ‘Oh yeah more characters are cool’. This is the first DLC I have been genuinely pumped and like ‘Yeah I will play this so much’.

Let’s start with Corrin/Kamui. I get it, it’s ‘another’ Fire Emblem Character, it’s another swordfighter, you’ve never played the games. I haven’t either, and none of that matters to me. I understand why people feel the need to have a proportionally representative roster, it’s usually because they’re secretly just sad that their favourite franchise doesn’t have more characters. I would be fine with 6 more Fire Emblem characters so long as they were visually distinct and have a unique fight style, and Corrin absolutely delivers on this. It’s been a long time since we got a new character who  had a truly unique fighting style, and I can absolutely understand Sakurai’s angle on this. I mean, if they spent time bringing Wolf back, we’d know his moveset would be like the other Starfox characters. I was a huge Bandana Dee fan, and as much as I would have wanted him in the game, deep down I know his moveset, truthfully, would have been pretty unique, just being a lancer/spearfighter instead of a swordfighter. I love Corrins moveset and gimmick, I think their visual appearance is top notch, and I have no complaints.

Okay, Bayonetta. When I heard the start of the trailer, I thought it was going to be another Kid Icarus character and was cringing a bit inside. But then I was blown away by Bayonetta. I think the time mechanics are awesome, and the combo mechanics look like they’ll have incredible depth. The Umbra CLock Tower stage looks like exact the stage style I’ve wanted (highly dynamic, but with minimal damaging hazards, and a static center, rather than a ‘moving’ stage. I’ve never played Bayonetta, but the direct almost makes me want to. In my mind, there was nothing disappointing and I applaud Sakurai’s bold decisions.

Also, as someone who has not been very keen on the idea of buying Mii costumes, I think they nailed it with the last batch. Knuckles, Tails, Takamaru and Ashley will be must-buys for me.

He must be relieved. Now he'll only get spammed for Wonder Red!

He must be relieved. Now he’ll only get spammed for Wonder Red!

These were our thoughts but you should let us know what you think in the comments below. Did anyone here expect Corrin and Bayonetta (and don’t you lie to us now) or was everyone as shocked as we were? Did Sakurai make a good choice with these characters or is his personal bias seeping through? We look forward to hearing your thoughts.

  1. Couldn’t be happier. I went in wanting a surprise, and I got two.

    Shroob on December 16 |
  2. (sorry it’s very long)
    I’m weird, i guess. Corrin was probably the most hyped I have been for a smash character since dlc was announced. i am not even a huge fire emblem fan, i have only finished awakaning and played a bit of sacred stones, and i didnt really know about fates much more than what was said in the directs. maybe it’s because of how unexpected it was or how i my only hope was “yeah, wolf will be pretty cool” but the second i saw him in the game i got exited. And then i saw his/her moveset, looks very unique and a lot of fun (also the addition of the fates main theme is awesome).
    bayonetta is a different story. the trailer started with pit talking and i thought we were going to get another ki character which i really didnt want (no, i dont no why 6 fe chars are ok, but 4 ki chars arent).and when i first saw bayonetta i was shocked, in a weird i dont know what’s going on and i am not sure what i think about it kinda like how cloud felt to me. cloud grew on me quickly and now that i played with him a bit he is really fun and i hope bayonetta will do the same. her crazy combos look like a lot of fun if you get good with them, it was interesting but not too much hype. i am pretty happy with the direct and dlc as a whole, even though i would have prefered more 1st party newcomers insted of 3 3rd party characters, they all have have unique movesets and are a lot of fun to play which is what i look for with new characters.

    swordofacorn on December 16 |
  3. My reaction to the direct, item by item
    Corrin-Another FE rep, that is three in one game, Why Sakurai… Holy S***, he can turn into a dragon! Take my money already, Nintendo. I’m sold.

    Cloud-nothing new if you have any experience with what moves are likely to be each special, but cool anyways.

    Geno-Now will those idiots shut up, he had no chance of being a fighter but this at least does him justice.

    Other mii fighters-So tons of characters I don’t know, and a few that I do. They are making costumes dependent on gender, now, too.

    Bayonetta-… This is amazing. How did you get this past the rating boards. That moveset is amazing. Meta Knight 2.0 here we go.

    Umbra Clock Tower-So will this stage competitively legal or not

    DekZek on December 16 |
  4. I’ve been without an internet connection for the last few days (except at work), and yesterday was the perfect time for it to come back. Unfortunately, I didn’t get it back in time for the live stream, and when I Google’d the Direct site, I got spoiler’d by news sites reporting Bayonetta. Frankly, at the time I was upset.

    I went in expecting some combination of Snake, Inkling, Shovel Knight, or Wolf, so to say I was surprised would be a bit of an understatement.

    I’m not upset about Corrin’s inclusion at all. I’m not subscribed to the idea that “x series needs x reps in Smash.” I think a lot of fans tend to forget that Fire Emblem is like Final Fantasy as far as characters go… their main characters change with nearly every game (with a few exceptions like Mystery of the Emblem and Radiant Dawn.) The fans that are going “ugh, another Fire Emblem character” or “I would’ve rather had x character” aren’t looking at the bigger picture: Corrin’s ability to transform is his (or her’s, but I’m not going to say that for each pronoun) biggest angle. Corrin is basically the Smash equivalent of a Darkstalkers character, which is actually pretty fascinating.

    During the presentation, Cloud was exactly as I expected him to be. I had a feeling Cloud’s Limit Gauge would charge on its own in addition to being able to manually charge with his Down B, turning into Finishing Touch when the gauge is full. After playing as him, though, Cloud is easily one of my new favorites. His ground game is nuts, and he’s generally just a very fun character to play as. <3

    The Mii Fighter costumes were a bit hit-and-miss to me (as usual, but I just deal with it):

    * Not much to say with the Chocobo Hat… it's a bit larger than I was expecting.
    * I feel they really dropped the ball with Geno's costume. I'm glad Super Mario RPG is getting some love (Geno was one of my main party members too), but the costume itself has the glaring flaw that the body does NOT nicely blend with ANY of the Mii skin colors. The fact that the cape doesn't cover as much because of the side view in Smash doesn't help matters.
    * Bionic Armor looks cool, but not really much to say since it's generic.
    * Takamaru I'm psyched for. He was a Mii Fighter of mine for a long time, and now he can come back looking proper. <3
    * Gilgamesh was unexpected, but it's nice to see another Namco character.
    * I'm just going to say right now that I hate the Tails hat… those are the kinds that annoy me to no end for how difficult they are to use properly.
    * The Knuckles costume I wasn't too keen on at first, but it is a pretty cool addition the more I see it.

    And then there's Bayonetta… I was never Bayo supporter before, played the demo on Xbox 360 a long time ago and wasn't too impressed, but seeing the video changed my mind… not so much the introduction (I was groaning through most of it), but when Sakurai broke down her gameplay, I was sold. A truly combo-centric character with unique properties? Very cool stuff.

    Overall, I'd say I wasn't really disappointed. I'm upset Snake didn't come back, but obviously there were issues surrounding that. I would've liked Inkling, but there must've been other issues there too. Besides that, I'm not sure if we could've gotten anybody better than we did.

    Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 16 |
  5. I think it aaaall worked out great. I know a lot of people are complaining about Corrin, but… it’s a water dragon with a chainsaw. I’ve never touched Fates but I want that. Bayonetta also looks wicked fun, and I’m in for costumes of Geno, Takamaru, Gilgamesh, and maybe Knuckles if I can get a good enough Mii for it. Might just grab the inevitable bundle because of how many I want this time around.

    Whether or not there’s any “Sakurai bias”, I don’t think it really hurts the end product any. We’ve got Nintendo characters from all generations and gaming’s greats both old and new, and somehow, we ended up with more fighters than the only other huge fighting game cast I can think of, MvC2, but without several other games worth of material to pull directly from and a wealth more stages and music. I think I can safely say that personally, this has turned out to be the best Smash to date by a wide margin… and I look forward to what Sakurai will do next outside Smash as well.

    Butt on December 16 |
  6. Everything I’ve read (including that link) suggests that Fates is selling more-or-less on par with Awakening in Japan.

    Bayonetta was explicitly stated to be the #1 viable ballot choice worldwide. There’s no use questioning it; it’s what people asked for.

    Characters like Cloud and Ryu, among other things, are great for publicity. They take over social media and get people to pay attention to what the series is up to. Even a fan favorite like Wolf can’t pull that off. If there’s a self-serving component in there, it’s dwarfed by the marketing component.

    All these remarks about “the fans” remind me of a famous quote from a great man who died this year (and I’m not talking about Iwata):
    “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

    Igiulaw on December 16 |
  7. I went into the presentation thinking it was just going to be Wolf plus whoever they picked from the ballot (which I didn’t think would be anybody I liked/wanted), so I was actually pleasantly surprised by the character choices.

    – Corrin looks incredibly unique and super fun to play as, plus I’ve never really cared for the whole “Franchise X has too much representation” or “X Franchise deserves more representation than Franchise Y” so I’m not too miffed about their inclusion (though I do wish the female version was the default one).

    – Even though I’ve never played her series, Bayonetta looks amazing and I’m buying her instantly when she comes out. Her being the ballot choice is kinda out of left field, yeah, but I don’t think she’s going to be the only thing that’s ever going to come from it. I doubt some of the Mii Costumes would have happened without support for some of those characters, plus data from it will most likely be used in future Smash games.

    So yeah, I liked the presentation and am excited for the last two characters. I’ve just got to track down copies of Bayo 1 and 2 in the meanwhile!

    V_ac on December 16 |
  8. I do think that it’s time for Sakurai to step down. He is clearly biased towards Fire Emblem, something I know if very easy to do. I used to love the series myself. I have my own issues with the Corrins, but besides that there is no way that Fire Emblem should have more fighters than Donkey Kong or The Legend of Zelda.

    Bayonetta is just…why? I do find it somewhat hard to believe, whether she really won or not, that she was the most popular character. She has had a measly two games, one of which has had abysmal sales. In any case, she is definitely not an all-star.

    The direct was overall disappointing. The Geno costume was probably the high point, which is just sad. The climax of DLC was a letdown. To be fair no character could probably accurately fill the final spot, but Bayonetta is certainly not that character. A veteran pack may have come closest with an optimized or Rosalina-Luma style Ice Climbers, Wolf (he is not a clone and certainly more unique than Roy and even Lucas), and maybe either Snake or a mask based Young Link. You may disagree with my choices, but the “climax” was definitely anti-climatic.

    On the bright side, I left liking Cloud better.

    Arthur 97 on December 16 |
    • Bayo isn’t an all-star sales-wise…but she’s a well-known and well-loved character worldwide. I haven’t even played either game, but I’m aware of just how badass she is and I’m super excited to see her in Smash. I didn’t even vote for her, but you don’t see me getting salty that she beat Shantae.

      Trogdorbad on December 17 |
      • She beat Shantae fairly easy. Shantae was on the “unrealized” list.

        J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 17 |
        • Bayonetta is also much more well-known than Shantae. TBH, I wouldn’t have even heard of her before all this ballot mess if I wasn’t such a huge Capcom nerd years ago.

          Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
  9. Corrin, I’m o.k. with. I was hoping that if Sakurai picked another Fire Emblem character, it should be one with high popularity. But overall I like this guy/girl. If only I could play Fire Emblem Awakening/Fates, however.

    Cloud was also o.k. In fact, I downloaded the character as soon as he came out. And I still don’t regret.

    I could care less about the Mii-Fighter costumes.

    Now before I get on Bayonetta, I would like to say that I stumbled upon a 4chan thread during the Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot’s early stages that was asking which character they should rig in the Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot. Several months later I heard that Bayonetta was 4chan’s favorite character to vote for. And from what several of you guys said, there could either be some foul play among us, Sakurai picked her for reasons other than the Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot, She was picked mid-ballot, or the Ballot is legit.

    Now back to the real case. As I predicted, Bayonetta’s inclusion is threatening the original ESRB rating for the game (From Rated E10+ to Rated RP-T) and to me is now considered the most sexualized character in the game. Her sexuality is toned down a little (changed her outfit slightly and barely shows signs of seduction in her personality), but I doubt that will help hold the game’s ESRB ratings. I was against her inclusion because of this reason, but she looks like a fun character to begin with (I was actually hoping that it was another Kid Icarus character from the way the the beginning of the trailer reveal is). The use of firearms, however, is what really upset me. Snake wasn’t allowed to use firearms because of how realistic they are and was one of the many reasons why James Bond wasn’t included back in Melee, which is now unfair because of this exception. I’m also surprised that they let her in considering Hideki Kamiya’s outburst towards the Smash community back in 2013. I guess he patched that up with Nintendo within 2 years. Overall, I’m still gonna buy her (and possibly her amiibo if I find her in my local retailers) and hope to see her as a great new addition to the Super Smash Bros. cast.

    Now that the DLC fiasco is coming to an end, I can finally reveal who I was rooting for: General Herman from the Battalion Wars series. Why? Because I was hoping that they could create another Olimar-esque character, also I love the Battalion Wars series. Since he was a Nintendo I.P., there would be less hassle about his inclusion. But since he was at the bottom of the barrel, I guess it’s time for the general to retire, as Sakurai might be doing in the future.

    I doubt that this will be the end of Super Smash Bros. as a whole, even with Sakurai. If the Kirby series is living on without him, then I’m sure that the Super Smash Bros. series can live on without him as well. Best of luck for one of the greatest minds in video game history and best of luck to all.

    Bob on December 16 |
    • Have you even seen the timeline of Kamiya’s tweets regarding Bayo in Smash? Early on, he was excited and hopeful. After a while he relegated his responses to “Ask Sakurai” and the infamous “Ask your mom” replies, showing he was likely genuinely getting tired. However, there’s a good chance she was picked earlier than we think – Kamiya yelling about how he’s said something 1000000000 times and blockig people isn’t new, and would be the perfect coverup for her being added. After all, he did reference that specific tweet in his recent one – “To Sakurai and all Smash idiots: I LOVE YOU”

      Trogdorbad on December 17 |
      • I don’t have a Twitter account nor do I care about social media.

        Bob on December 17 |
        • If you don’t keep up with social media, how would you even know about Kamiya’s outbursts?

          Trogdorbad on December 24 |
  10. They let anyone in these days…as long as they are third parties or Fire Emblem characters.

    Arthur 97 on December 16 |
  11. Just to avoid confusion, it may be worth noting that Fire Emblem Fates came out in Japan back in June and isn’t out until February in the West (since “just released” may make people wonder if you mean in the west…maybe? xD)

    PushDustIn and anybody else who reads my blog knows I’m a really big Fire Emblem series fan, but even I thought Kamui was a little bit of an odd choice. But it didn’t bother me, and certainly surprised me, but it still made me wonder what went into the thoughts behind his/her inclusion… maybe Famitsu will reveal that at a later date.

    Bayonetta was a surprise too, and though I did not vote for her I am glad for whoever did. : ) It must be a great feeling seeing the person you vote for turn out to be the one who won!

    I voted for Ashley, personally, and had Tails in mind as a second character (I was fair and only voted once xD) so was really happy to see that both of the mentioned came in the form of costumes.

    I’m a little disappointed that Kamui won’t have a female alternate amiibo, but that is no surprise considering Robin got the same treatment, and that really isn’t too much of a problem.

    I look forward to seeing where Sakurai might go from here now that he will be free of Smash Brothers…for now!

    xkan on December 16 |
  12. Well well well.

    I wasn’t BS’ing when I said how Sakurai tries to make the world revolve around him.

    Corrin definitely could have waited.

    & while I like Bayonetta, how did she really win the Smash Ballot when she only sold 200K copies?

    K. Rool was requested all across the boards. One character isn’t too much to ask for; it’s not like they ask Sakurai to make an entire new game. After all these years of being asked about K. Rool, why can’t he just give it to them? He wasn’t my top priority, but that’s kind of disgusting of Sakurai. I pray somebody else takes over.

    J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 16 |
    • The purpose of DLC is fan service, there are numerous quotes for that, so I would get your point, as K Rool is popular. The other point of the matter, however, is that Bayonetta was the #1 fighter in Europe, in the top 5 in the US, and the #1 realizable character globally. People want her, even if you don’t. I didn’t vote for her (voted for Wolf, because I mained him in Brawl) but she has an amazing fighting style and is a very well designed character (even if she is a bit OP), with a unique moveset that can’t otherwise be realized. Also that’s why I don’t hate on the Half-Dragon

      DekZek on December 16 |
      • Yeah, it’s possible that you can made up statistics, because Bayonetta didn’t even sell a million copies worldwide.

        Since that K., Rool outfit released 3 months before the Smash Ballot was over, I can’t help but think that Sakurai intentionally screwed him out of the ballot so a more partial character had a better chance of winning it. It’s “fan-service” until you manipulate the results to your favor. I’m not sure what he has against him, but if he wanted to put him in Smash, he would have done so already it’s been how long since fans requested him?

        J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 17 |
        • He is not a character who origins from japan, not kidding. I really would not be surprised if this would be the case. From a few articles I did read japan is pretty racist, even against people among their own, if they don`t meet certain standards.
          Rayman is from Ubisoft (french?, would have fit greatly in the game as well, even through I can not stand Ubisoft as like EA), Krystal, K.Rool, Dixie, Banjo… all characters created by Rare, which is not a part of Nintendo anymore. You should underestimate false pride. If people have power and are pissed like kids, they might not think like a normal human being anymore. The only reason why their trophies are in the game might be because of a must, to cover that (since then it would be too obvious). Yes, I know, it is a conspiracy theory and Diddy is in the game, but it just feels like that…
          Well, if he retires and somebody else with some skill takes his job, things might turn out differently from now on.

          mothes on December 17 |
          • If that were true, wow how prejudice.

            But, Diddy Kong was from the same creator, keep in mind.

            J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 17 |
        • Jesus christ, I can feel my blood pressure rising just reading that, and I have a high tolerance for salt. You’re clearly believing that the fan polls placing Rool in first were accurate, when they were severely incorrect and unbalanced. Get over it, Bayo won and Rool didn’t.

          Trogdorbad on December 17 |
          • Wow, that really made you mad?

            Bayonetta didn’t win. Sakurai won. All his characters are “winners”.

            J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 17 |
          • People are having a REALLY REALLY REALLY Hard time to just accepting that Bayonetta won the goddamn ballot instead of the character that they casted a vote. I voted for Wonder Red and I’m perfectly fine with Bayo’s inclusion (especially for a Platinum Games fan like me).

            fabricioogrande on December 18 |
        • “Wow, that really made you mad?

          Bayonetta didn’t win. Sakurai won. All his characters are “winners”.”

          I’m not mad, my blood pressure’s rising due to the sheer amount of salt you’re putting off. It’s a joke about how sodium increases blood pressure, not anger.

          That being said, jesus christ you are SALTY. Bayo won, K. Rool didn’t, go cry to your mom or something. Oh, wait, your mom might remind you of Kamiya’s infamous catchphrase and therefore Bayo. Sorry, can’t help you there.

          Trogdorbad on December 24 |
    • I somewow feel like the whole ballot thingy was more or less a show, a wannabe fan ballot.

      Roy: Considering he added the character back in melee to advert the back then upcoming game which he played and liked by himself, I am not surprised Roy returned

      Corrin: As like as with Robin (s)he was added to advert the upcoming Fire Emblem game. He really likes Fire Emblem. “From now on until the end it will be fanservice, that is, if it is in my interest lol”

      Bayonetta: relevant for wii u, might push some more sales of the game, seems to be owned by Sega, strengthens most likey the relationship with developer Platinum to give them their entry in Smash as well …

      Ryu: Capcom is an important business business partner (Monster Hunter games for most). As like Street Fighter, Smash has a huge community specially in the competition scene. Wouldn`t it feel nice, to also cross advert the games? Win Win situation. It somehow worked for me at least, I learned about Ryu and his original inputs not before smash 4 and tried SF4 on 3ds. Just as planned I guess? And of course: Street Fighter V MIGHT come one day on NX as well.

      Mewtwo: As like Roy he returned from Melee. Considering he left a spot open for a Gen 6 pokemon during development of the main game, he seems to have some kind of interest in the series. As we learned, he was supposed to never get cut, he just did not make it in time for Brawl, so he never was supposed to dissappear as it seems.

      Cloud: Square Enix and Nintendo are BFF now. Square does support the 3ds well with Final Fantasy explorers, that ryhm.. thingy games, the upcoming Dragon quest games and is confirmed developer for NX already. AND he is relevant for the highly requested FF7 remake, which also might make it on NX after some time of release on ps4 …

      Lucas: ???? (no idea)

      Yes, I see patterns!

      BTW: the ballot seems to feel real and honest about mii fighter costumes, since they are not that kind of an issue in terms of work.

      mothes on December 17 |
    • BTW: on eventhubs they all are going the hate way against europe now (me = Germany). I voted for K. Rool, as he was my favorite villian from DK64 and the DKL games on GB back then. He as a lot of more personality than Bowser will ever have. But at the end it was true, mii fighter costumes = deconfirmed character.
      No idea if they will do an “Smash brothers for NX” version with all DLC and some more bonus chacters (maybe return of ice climbers and stuff), no idea, but it would be quite easy for them and some quick money, as it would not be a full game development.
      I am close of being 31 years old, I was very happy with Smash 3ds and played it quite a lot, even if I am not really good with the game. I dont know if I will experience Smash 5 or maybe I am then just too old for videogames. I might end up caring for completly different things then, unless the NX version happens in time, without us knowing at the moment.
      The development team of Smash 4 however did a fantastic job, it plays better than Melee for me and my best buddy could not stand Melee back then at all, even through he liked Fox in Smash 64 a lot. But Smash 4 is very well done in his opinion as well.

      mothes on December 17 |
    • Stay salty. Bayo may not have sold much, but she’s well-known and loved the world over. I know who she is, and I’ve never bought her games, and I think she’s a great inclusion, being one of the most badass heroines up there with Samus. Plus, you don’t see me crying that Shantae didn’t win, even though she was my vote (and K. Rool was clearly yours)

      Trogdorbad on December 17 |
  13. @Igiulaw If only he told Sakurai that.

    J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 16 |
  14. “I think the inkling mechanic, as often described by fans would be nearly impossible to implement into a game like Smash. Something would need to be drawn back. Just like Olimar has only several Pikmin in Smash for Wii U and 3DS and slightly several more in Brawl when compared to his original game where he can have 100 of them at a time. Therefore all the fan designed ink movesets are all pipe dreams.”

    I don’t understand this logic. There’s a big difference between a potential 800 Pikmin, and an ink mechanic that’s already been done before on the system. 100 Pikmin for Olimar would make him overpowered, lag the game, be impossible to manage, clutter the screen, etc. The ink mechanic, on the other hand, has already been done by Splatoon with no hiccups — only thing changing in Smash is the removal of the third dimension. Splatoon has eight players, online play, the works, and the ink works just fine there. It wouldn’t be overwhelming from a gameplay perspective either — if that were the case, it’d also be the case in Splatoon, I’d imagine. As for the 3DS:

    (also, great article guys! I was a bit ticked off about Corrin and Bayo at first, but I’ve warmed up to them. I’m hype.)

    Munomario777 on December 16 |
    • I don’t think it’s realizable to have ink sprayed on entire stages that provides buffs to Inklings (and possible debuffs to opponents), especially if the ink stayed on for more than 5 seconds. It would make balancing them a nightmare. In Splatoon, stepping on opponent ink slightly damages you. Stepping on your own increases your speed and allows you to transform into a squid. I dont think that functionality can be ported over in Smash, especially when you have a wide variety of stages and playstyles.

      Most people imagine the Inklings when its against other Inklings. In that case, fighting to get stage control via ink would be fun. Fighting for stage control with Inklings vs. Ryu would not be.

      Hopefully that helps explain what I mean!

      PushDustIn on December 19 |
      • Thanks for the reply! I can see what you’re saying now. While the Inkling-vs-Inkling dynamic is inkdeed a fun idea, I’ve also put some thought inkto how they could be balanced against other fighters. Here’s how I see it going down:

        The ink would deal only non-flinching damage to opponents, maybe 1 or 2% per second. (In the original, it slows you down, but this seems too disruptive to the gameplay, so a bit of simple damage seems like a good compromise.) It’d last about 5-10 seconds (fitting for a past-paced game such as Smash), but an opponent could destroy it by attacking it. There would be two types of ink: “thick” and “thin” trails, with the thick ones being more durable but the thin ones being quicker to place down (so thick, 12%-stamina ink would be placed by the slower splat roller, whereas attacks like the splattershot would make a thin, 7%-stamina trail, but be quicker). It wouldn’t make the Inkling faster to run normally — it doesn’t do that in Splatoon either — but a crouch/crawl inkput would allow it to swim through the ink at high speeds, which has little lag (I picture it being around Captain Falcon’s dash). If, however, you manage to hit an Inkling while it’s swimming (which wouldn’t be all that difficult, since you can see the ripples where it’s moving), they’d be stunned for quite some time — like how hitting a barrier at the top of a wall makes you flinch in Splatoon. Then it’d be very vulnerable, so you’d have to get tricky with how you swim in the ink. Other ideas inklude canceling or reducing the ending lag of moves into a squid swim, or powering up certain attacks whilst standing in ink.

        The Inkling’s playstyle would be very unique with the ink and its mechanics as described above. Not only would it have to use the ink to fight opponents, but it’d also need to set aside some “maintenance” time — if you keep squid swimming and focusing on offense, you’ll quickly lose your valuable turf. Since most of the Inkling’s good ink-spreading attacks have something that hinders them in regular combat — such as the Splattershot not causing foes to flinch, or the Splat Roller being slow to start — the Inkling will need to make space with other attacks, and then use its ink-spreading attacks to reclaim its turf. I’ve gone quite ink-depth on the subject of the Inkling’s moveset before: Check it out if you’re inkterested. I hope, though, that this brief (by comparison) summary has helped explain how it’d work. 🙂

        Munomario777 on December 19 |
      • Thanks for the reply! I can see what you’re saying now. While the Inkling-vs-Inkling dynamic is inkdeed a fun idea, I’ve also put some thought inkto how they could be balanced against other fighters. Here’s how I see it going down:

        The ink would deal only non-flinching damage to opponents, maybe 1 or 2% per second. (In the original, it slows you down, but this seems too disruptive to the gameplay, so a bit of simple damage seems like a good compromise.) It’d last about 5-10 seconds (fitting for a past-paced game such as Smash), but an opponent could destroy it by attacking it. There would be two types of ink: “thick” and “thin” trails, with the thick ones being more durable but the thin ones being quicker to place down (so thick, 12%-stamina ink would be placed by the slower splat roller, whereas attacks like the splattershot would make a thin, 7%-stamina trail, but be quicker to use). It wouldn’t make the Inkling faster in terms of running — it doesn’t do that in Splatoon either — but a crouch/crawl inkput would allow it to swim through the ink at high speeds, which has little lag, so you can attack out of it (I picture it being around Captain Falcon’s dash). If, however, you manage to hit an Inkling while it’s swimming (which wouldn’t be all that difficult, since you can see the ripples where it’s moving), they’d be stunned for quite some time — like how hitting a barrier at the top of a wall makes you flinch in Splatoon. Then it’d be very vulnerable, so you’d have to get tricky with how you swim in the ink. (It’s funny you mention Ryu; his light dtilt would be rather effective at stopping the Inkling in this way.) Other ideas inklude canceling or reducing the ending lag of moves into a squid swim, or powering up certain attacks whilst standing in ink.

        The Inkling’s playstyle would be very unique with the ink and its mechanics as described above. Not only would it have to use the ink to fight opponents, but it’d also need to set aside some “maintenance” time — if you keep squid swimming and focusing on offense, you’ll quickly lose your valuable turf. Since most of the Inkling’s good ink-spreading attacks have something that hinders them in regular combat — such as the Splattershot not causing foes to flinch, or the Splat Roller being slow to start — the Inkling will need to make space with other attacks, and then use its ink-spreading attacks to reclaim its turf. I’ve gone quite ink-depth on the subject of the Inkling’s moveset before: Check it out if you’re inkterested. I hope, though, that this brief (by comparison) summary has helped explain how it’d work. 🙂

        Munomario777 on December 19 |
        • When thinking of Inkling in Smash, I didn’t even think the ink mechanic would be a thing. I thought they would be like the ultimate zoning character, where they control the arena with traps (similar to Snake) and long-range shots. For squid travel, I thought of it being their down B and functioning like Greninja’s, where as you held B, the Inkling would shoot a longer ink trail, and upon releasing B, the Inkling would transform into a squid and travel along the path.

          I guess we’ll see what happens next Smash game, though.

          Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 20 |
  15. Well, those responses were very….polarizing.

    Anyway, I’ll just go through my thoughts on this direct. On my first runthrough, I was a bit…..”distracted” trying to get book reports printed before my class final in half an hour, and quality was horrible. During this, I was really disappointed with the direct. To be honest, my favorite part was probably the Geno costume, and I even knew of the Geno hat leak from the day before already.

    On my second run through and after mozying it over in my head however, my response for Corrin went from strong negative to moderate negative and Bayonetta went from moderate negative to moderate positive. Getting *another* Fire Emblem into the game was a large disappointment for me, offset only slightly by his interesting and entirely unique moveset (besides the counter, anyways…). I’d have been happier with someone from practically any other Nintendo franchise, aside from maybe Kid Icarus. I’d like to think that Sakurai didn’t have as much choice in this decision as he makes it sound, but that’s probably wishful thinking on my part.

    Bayonetta however, at the end of the day, I am quite pleased with what I saw. While she is one of the last ballot characters I’d have wanted who sounded like she had a large-ish fan base, the only characters that I would have been unhappy to see win the ballot (among those I saw any amount of support for) would have been a veteran or the inklings. A veteran since, after spending 6 months voting in the thing, and even longer speculating on the possibilities, there would not be a bigger let-down for me than seeing a veteran be declared the winner and take the place of a new fighter…..well, except maybe Snake. I’d have lived with Snake. As for Inkling, to be blunt, they just didn’t need it. As PushDustIn points out, there really wasn’t a reason for them not to be put in for Corrin to begin with, since they’re so big and relevant now. Literally every character I saw support for on the ballot needed it to some degree, most of which for awareness of the character/franchise, be it just for making it into Smash or for the character or franchise to continue into the future. Inkling….doesn’t. They’re in Smash 5. Period. That being said, while I don’t know here well from her games at all, she looks like she has been implemented beautifully. And if Nintendo says she won the ballot in Europe, top 5 in NA, and 1st in World (sorta)? I have no complaints.

    That being said, I would like to talk about who could have *actually* won the ballot, but I’ll continue that in another comment, since it’s irrelevant to what I’ve discussed so far. Also, does anyone know how I can watch Source Gaming’s reaction recorded? I couldn’t find it anywhere when I tried to look for it.

    Anime9001 on December 16 |
    • I messed up, and didn’t properly record the conversation. However, the reaction videos are on the YouTube due to the hard work of Arcaira and Nirbion! SourceCast #6 will be uploaded in the near future too!

      PushDustIn on December 19 |
  16. So…..who actually won the ballot? With how intricately they worded it, there was obviously some “unnegotiable or unrealizable” character that beat her. But who would that be? Here are my guesses at possible candidates:

    Banjo & Kazooie: This one pains me to say it since I voted for them, but I think this is one of the more likely ones. There’s really a number of ways this could have not worked out. Microsoft may have wanted too much for him (in game recognition or money). Microsoft may have been unwilling to give Sakurai full control over the character. I could see them saying that they had to use the version of Banjo from Nuts & Bolts or something stupid like that and Sakurai refusing (which, if that’s that’s the case, then I’m kinda ok with this), Microsoft may not have been telling the truth when they said they’d work with Nintendo, or Nintendo simply may not have wanted to work with Microsoft. Really, a number of things could have happened here.

    Sora: If anyone had a large enough casual fan base to win without making much of a splash in the hardcore smash community, I think it would be Sora. Quite a few people seem to want him, but aren’t very loud about it. Also, I feel that Kingdom Hearts has a much larger younger fan base than people give it credit for (at least people too young for FF7), and I get the feeling that people who like Kingdom Hearts like would be more likely to like Nintendo games more than most other Square or Sony franchises. Maybe that’s just be though. Anyway, how he could win aside, if I am correct then I’m pretty sure Disney owns (or co-owns?) Sora. If you notice, Sora doesn’t even appear in Square’s crossover games. And if there’s someone Nintendo would be powerless to negotiate with, it’d be Disney.

    Ridley: I don’t think I need to say anything here….

    King K Rool: Yes. He may actually fall into this category. I will actually talk about Ridley here, since it’s relevant. I have often said that the “too big” argument amongst fans is entirely irrelevant, because whether Ridley is too big or not doesn’t keep him from being in Smash. What keeps him from being in the game is that Sakurai *believes* Ridley is too big. If Ridley wasn’t too big and Sakurai thinks he is, then he won’t be in the game, and if Ridley is too big and Sakurai doesn’t think he is, then he would be in the game. That being said, as stupid as it sounds, this same argument could apply to K Rool. Even though he’s only been bigger than Bowser in one game (and Bowser has been bigger than Bowser in a number of games…) I have seen some people think he’s too big, and if Sakurai believes this, then we aren’t getting him……and for the first time, I think I would legitimately lose some respect for Sakurai if that was the case.

    Goku: I don’t think any of the joke characters actually came anywhere near winning the ballot, but if one did, it’d be Goku.

    Snake/any Konami character: While I don’t think Simon Belmont could have gotten enough votes, this does apply to Bomberman I suppose. With everything that’s been going down at Konami recently, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case.

    And that’s all I could think of. What do other people think? Anyone I missed? Or disagree with anyone I listed here? I’d like to hear other’s opinions on this.

    Also, once again, if anyone knows where I could watch Source Gaming’s reaction to the direct, that would be very appreciated~

    Anime9001 on December 16 |
    • Just a couple of thoughts on what you said…

      With Banjo-Kazooie… Nintendo and Microsoft seem to have a really weird relationship right now. On the one hand, Minecraft was ported to Wii U (albeit pretty much just being a port of the Xbox 360 version, Skyrim and Mass Effect mash-ups in tow), but on the other hand, Microsoft said that B-K had a chance in Smash, and the Rare Replay could come to Wii U, but then Rare contradicted MS saying that RR would be exclusive to Xbox One.

      I think Sora is co-owned by Square-Enix and Disney… this came up in a comment discussion here on SG a while back.

      K. Rool I’ve argued in the past is probably too big for Smash. In the Donkey Kong Country games, he’s been depicted as larger than DK, who is pretty much the same size as Bowser in Smash in their neutral stances. Bowser, DK, and Dedede are pretty much as big as it gets for Smash. I don’t really buy into the “Bowser changes size, so can K. Rool” argument, because even though he’s been anywhere from a bit taller and wider than Mario to Kaiju-size, he’s been consistently larger than Mario. Also, I’m not on the train of thought that because K. Rool was about the same size as DK for ONE sports game, it legitimizes the argument. Not only that, but K. Rool isn’t even really relevant anymore.

      Snake was obviously excluded because of something with Konami, whether it was them or Nintendo not wanting to work with them. I can guarantee Snake was in the top 5.

      Besides them, the only ones I could think of that would be in the top rankings would be Inkling and veterans. Bayo was said to be in the “top 5” for North America, which means she was ranked somewhere between 2 and 5, and it was also said that she beat out veterans. I’m sure many of the Mii Fighter costumes are indications of high-ranking ballot entries (like K. Rool, Geno, Tails, Knuckles, and Ashley.)

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 17 |
      • I really heavily disagree with K Rool being too big. There’s a difference between this too big:

        And this too big:

        Ridley is the size of….3 Samus’s? Probably bigger. K Rool *might* be a head taller than DK in over half of his appearances, including the TV series. Furthermore, Ridley is defined by his size. He’s an imposing character, and shrinking his size would damage his image. K Rool, much like Bowser, is a more comical villain who changes based on the situation at hand. His size doesn’t define him, he just needs to be bigger than DK most of the time, and probably not even as much so as he is in his games, which is why an appearance in Mario Sluggers was more than doable.

        Personally, I don’t think Ridley would be impossible to put into the game, but the argument is respectable because Ridley is defined by his size. Olimar is the size of a grain of rice, but it doesn’t define him. Kirby is 8 inches tall, but it doesn’t define him. K Rool is a head taller than DK because he had to be taller than DK to be a reasonable villain, but his size doesn’t define his character. Speaking of which, there are already at least 2 characters who are taller than DK, which include Bowser who’s standing stance puts him about 1/2 to 1/3rd a head taller than DK, and…..Rosalina. If exact size was that important, I’m pretty sure Rosalina wouldn’t be taller than DK. Other characters might be taller than him as well, but you get my point.

        All in all, I find the “too big” argument for K Rool completely inapplicable. If size restrictions were that strict, then we wouldn’t have a fairly sizable portion of the existing roster. Just as another reference of another character that’s “too big,” here’s link vs ganon in Twighlight Princess:

        I’ve got nothing to say about his relevancy, but I was mostly talking about if these characters won the ballot, which Nintendo *seems* to not be taking that into account with who was chosen (although that would have obviously affected his number of votes). That being said, sorry if I’m a bit forceful with my stance on this here, but the argument existing kinda irks me to begin with~

        Anime9001 on December 17 |
        • Woah, somehow that third link ended up being a downloadable file. Just ignore that, I didn’t even know copying an image’s address could do that… anyway, it was basically showing that Ganondorf is about twice Link’s size in Twighlight Princess. This one’s not an in-game picture, but should get the point across as well:

          Aside from that, I don’t really have much to comment on the rest of what you said. I will say that, if those Mii costumes really are some of the other top voted characters, then I would be surprised. They’re all characters that I’m sure got a good number of votes, but I don’t think I’d have pegged more than one of them breaking the top 20.

          Anime9001 on December 17 |
      • about K. Rool:
        He is supposed to be as big as DK
        DK64 – Secret Ending
        It is the same as with Bowser, his size is not always the same. It depends on the game and situation… in DK64 he is as big as an elephant, while in DKC and its SNES sequels he is roughly as big as DK

        K.Rool is not relevant anymore, because developers seems to want it that way. Just think about it.
        Back with DKCR: “Hey, we are going to make a new DKC game – K. rool sucks – we dont want to have him in the game”
        Fans: “Where is K. Rool? We want him back, damnit”
        Sakurai during smash 4 development: “Hmm, no K. Rool, not important, he is not relevant anymore. There hasn`t been any game with him as villian anymore, so I am not going to put him in”
        Fans: “Are you f****ing kidding me?”

        It really feels like that, it really feels like sombody decides laws random and can always say: “I always observe the laws”

        Not sure if the website guys care about article ideas

        After Ryu came to Smash, some characters might end up getting in Street Fighter V (it it would come to NX)
        3 would fit quite great IMO: Cap. Falcon, ZSS and Little Mac. They are seriuos enough to get mixed with the existing ones.
        So well fitting Smash characters “translated” into SF gameplay, instead of Ryu getting “ported” to Smash. Just an idea.

        mothes on December 17 |
      • Actually, he has been depicted as much smaller in DKC2 & DKC 3. He’s so big in DKC 1 because of what you need to do to avoid his attack. It makes sense for him to be big, because when he charges at you, there’s some form of difficulty in jumping over him.

        J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 17 |
      • Just so nobody thinks I’m being biased, I’m going to throw this stuff up:

        Here’s some screenshots depicting the boss battles from Donkey Kong Country 1 and 2, where, yes, he did shrink between DKC 1 and 2, K. Rool is still a head taller than DK… while DK is standing upright:

        I also took some screenshots in Smash. Comparing DK and Diddy to their DKC counterparts, DK was either made a lot bigger or Diddy was made a lot smaller (as you can see in the screenshot in the bottom left.) Since DK’s vs. K. Rool’s size is what’s in question, I focused on character sizes vs. DK:

        R1,C1: DK and Bowser… in their neutral stances they’re about the same size… note that DK never has his legs fully extended (his knees are pretty much always bent), but he is still larger than Bowser. This is actually still pretty consistent with their appearances in Donkey Kong and Super Mario Bros.

        R1,C2: DK and Rosalina… in their neutral stances, Rosalina is indeed about a head taller for what it’s worth… Rosalina’s head is quite small compared to DK, though, and she is also much narrower.

        R2,C1: DK and Ganondorf… he’s also about a head taller than DK, but like Rosalina, has a pretty small head proportionately and is still narrower.

        R2,C2: DK and Dedede… they’re roughly the same height and width.

        R3,C1: DK & Diddy and a resized sprite of K. Rool… I resized K. Rool to be a head taller than DK in his neutral stance, which would make him approximately the same size as DK if he were to stand up straight. This would make him the largest character in Smash, being both taller than him and just as wide. If one was to shrink him down any farther, I would start to question if his character would be depicted accurately.

        So, everyone can draw their own conclusions, but I feel like K. Rool is too big to be accurately portrayed in Smash. I think he might be better off getting the Ridley treatment as being the boss of a Donkey Kong Country-themed stage, but that’s just my personal opinion.

        On another note, I don’t think the secret ending of DK64 is really concrete evidence of anything… it’s obviously not meant to be taken seriously.

        Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 17 |
        • To be honest, that sprite size for K Rool looks perfect to me. Maybe should be a bit fatter, but that’s the perfect size for him. Much like the characters taller than DK, K Rool actually has a pretty small head, and if K Rool’s crown doesn’t have a hit box, then he really isn’t any taller than Ganondorf (actually, I’m pretty sure that makes him smaller than Ganon).

          The only important thing is that K Rool is taller than DK. As you pointed out, DK isn’t standing on his hind legs in Smash, but he never does. As long as DK stays in his usual hunched shape, K Rool looks perfectly sized next to them.

          As you’ve stated, this is your opinion, but the reason why I hate this argument is because it feels very narrow minded to me. People make up rules for Smash characters all the time based on “this hasn’t happened yet, so that must mean it can’t happen,” and some of those are more reasonable than others, but this one is so niche I honestly can’t follow the reasoning for it. Needing a character to be twice the size than any other like Ridley isn’t the same as needing a character to be a couple pixels taller than the rest of the cast. You basically just said “We don’t have a fat character taller than Donkey Kong, and we haven’t had a character taller than Ganondorf, so that must mean that Ganondorf is the height limit that characters are allowed.”

          Still, I’m getting to the point that I’m becoming noticeably annoyed at your side of the argument because I can’t reasonably understand it, and I apologize for that. That’s just how much this particular argument irks me. In the end, this is just my opinion, and you are entitled to yours as well.

          I appreciate the back and forth btw.

          Anime9001 on December 18 |
          • I understand your position on the matter, and I admit that after making that picture, I realized K. Rool isn’t AS big as I thought he had to be, but being both taller and nearly as wide as DK hasn’t been done before. Part of what I was getting at with Rosalina and Ganondorf is that they’re both taller than DK, but about half his width… while Bowser and Dedede are about as tall and wide. I may be splitting hairs about it, but K. Rool would overall be the largest character in Smash, being a huge target, which may or may not be acceptable depending on his properties. Bear in mind that characters are more than just for one-on-one matches… multiple opponents, items, and potential to get hit by everything in there (including Final Smashes, Daybreak, Dragoon, etc.) need to be considered.

            The issues I foresee have to do with both balance and portrayal. Being such a large target, K. Rool would surely have to have high defense (either just regular high defense or limited super armor of some kind.) Depending on how he handles from there would have to be carefully considered at the risk of losing his identity. Additionally, I’m not sure if Sakurai wants to portray K. Rool as larger than every other character in Smash, which isn’t something I can prove or disprove, but it is something to consider.

            The biggest problem I have with K. Rool is that I’m not really sure what he can add to Smash (same with Dixie Kong.) The main reasons I see for his inclusion are “we need more DK reps,” “we need more villains,” and “we need more heavyweights,” rather than describing what only K. Rool can do that nobody else can. His size is just one more obstacle that would need to be overcome in addition to that… I was just focusing on it since you brought it up.

            But as we both said, we have our opinions, they differ, and that’s okay. If K. Rool makes it into Smash 5, it wouldn’t surprise me, as Sakurai acknowledged the demand for him with the Mii Fighter costume. But if he or whoever directs it can’t figure out how to make K. Rool work in a way where he’ll add something worthwhile, he’s just not going to make it in. It’s a big unknown at this point.

            Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
        • I think everyone who’re you replying too are pretty aware of that information and the sizes of K. Rool in different games since that was what they were talking about in the first place… You don’t always have to thrown in obvious information that a lot of people know all the time in this site. …

          Ar on December 18 |
        • Also, if K. Rools’s own *creators* were supporting him on the ballot from their twitters, it means that they believe K. Rool works in Smash, and they’re game designers too, so I think the only one who can say that he is too big is Sakurai. And like the OP said, he was discussing about how it didn’t mattered if K. Rool was too big or not, or what we thought, what mattered is what Sakurai believed, so I think you kinda missed the point.

          Ar on December 18 |
          • I wasn’t trying to offend or post “obvious” information… what’s obvious to one person isn’t obvious to another. I’m just trying to encourage critical thinking and healthy discussion… I’m not the kind of person to agree with the majority when I’m not on board with what they’re trying to say. I know it’s up to Sakurai to determine when characters get in Smash or not, but if everyone just goes “K. Rool could work in Smash because he was this big in this game, it’s Sakurai’s fault for excluding him,” it’s really only looking at the issue from one angle. There are gameplay issues that surround a character’s size… that’s why I was pointing out what appears to be the maximum width and height for the playable characters.

            I’m entitled to my opinion just like everyone else… sorry if me disagreeing and posting my thought process behind it offends you.

            Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 19 |
    • K. Rool is not too big. See Mario Super Sluggers. If that were the case Sakurai can’t even take a look at games for the company he works for.

      J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 17 |
    • Guess what other character used to be irrelevant.


      J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 17 |
      • And he probably will be again soon if KI: Uprising doesn’t get a sequel of some kind. Why Sakurai chose to revive him in the first place is anybody’s guess… might have been just to be a “retro revival,” might be because he’s part of the Famicom Four (which may count for something, as Takamaru has been considered too), might be because Sakurai thought he was interesting… who knows?

        Regardless of what happened in the past, the fact is that K. Rool hasn’t been used in a main DK title since Donkey Kong 64, and hasn’t been featured in a game (barring Smash trophy / costume appearances) since 2008, and there have been two main DK titles since then. It seems like he’s pretty much doomed unless he’s featured in the next DKCR or Smash 5.

        Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
        • He always has excuses. The Duck Hunt Dog, R.O.B., Roy, Ike, & even Marth are by no means relevant. It shouldn’t matter how long it’s been since he was in a game, people want him.

          J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 18 |
          • Duck Hunt not relevant is cheeky. The Duck Hunt game sold alone more copies than Wii U units, one single game for the NES had bigger sales than the Wii U’s entire install base.

            fabricioogrande on December 18 |
          • Duck Hunt, R.O.B., and Mr. Game & Watch follow the tradition of being the surprise retro character. Usually they’re the last character you unlock (except in cases where characters are dropped and added at the last minute, like Wolf for Brawl and Jiggs for Smash 4.)

            Ice Climbers and Pit are likely similar retro revivals.

            Marth was the first lord in Fire Emblem and has appeared in the most games (aside from Anna, for what it’s worth)… he’s THE Fire Emblem protagonist. Roy and Ike were relevant at the time and added in as Smash veterans later.

            If you’re going to argue relevance, one needs to look at the Smash game the character first appeared in. Everyone else was a major character in the current or last generation, or is a staple character in their respective series. Sakurai has alluded to who’s popular at the time of the start of the development cycle as a factor of who gets in.

            Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
  17. #SmashBallotwasaninsidejob
    Heh, just kidding.
    I thought Corrin’s inclusion was weird (and okay at the same time because he seems pretty cool), it doesn’t has to do with my opinion about the character or moveset, but it’s because of the Inklings. A lot of people said the Inklings were too new, and because of that they wouldn’t get in Smash despite Splatoon being very successful in sales, but Fire Emblem Fates is much more new than that… I know that Sakurai starts developing characters from upcoming games much before their game is released, but he said all DLC was made after Smash Bros’s production finished, and that wasn’t too long before Splatoon was released, so I wonder if Corrin’s production started before or after Splatoon release… Because…Well, despite Splatoon success I guess Sakurai just really wanted to do Corrin.

    Ar on December 16 |
  18. Honestly, I was well surprised when I first noticed that Corrin and Bayonetta was chosen for the final DLC. But it’s an odd thing…unlike everybody here who’s ultimately disappointed with this, I am surprised and quite shocked, but actually happy rather than being upset about it. I think that’s because I wasn’t expecting anything for this announcement, which may have kept myself patience and positive. Well, although I’ve heard of about them before, I’m not a fan of both FE and Bayonetta series as I haven’t played it before, and neither know much about the two’s backstory and personality. But when I was watching the direct, I was like “WHOA!? Corrin can turn into a dragon and wields a hybrid of a sword and chainsaw!?” and “What the…Bayonetta can control time!?”…and seriously, I was totally hyped with excitement. Although this doesn’t mean I wanna try play their games, but I definitely wanna try play as them as I am welcoming them in my roster.

    People are complaining that Sakurai was so stupid enough for choosing such generic characters for the final DLC, but I disagree with that as I think it does make sense why he chose them. Not just Bayonetta is the ballot winner, nor he chose Corrin because Sakurai’s a huge FE fan, but this is what Sakurai was seeking strongly on, which are certain character’s uniqueness. Cloud’s Limit Break ability, Corrin’s transforming attacks, Bayonetta’s combos and effects…these are something that they can use while others can’t. And that makes Smash become something more interesting how those characters can work as others can’t do the same thing as that character does. Popularity and iconic may matter for choosing a character for Smash, but entirely, uniqueness is something more important to choose a character that’s really different to each other. Corrin may be another FE character as people complain there’s too many FE characters, but they’re not another Marth; they can transform into a dragon to attack, they wield a sword that acts like a chainsaw, they can pierce opponents or objects for long moment, that’s something other FE characters can’t. Bayonetta may be another unexpected 3rd party character, but she can use multiple combos and slow opponents by controlling their time, and even has unique effects like her shadow and damaging effect, and the only fighter who was allowed to use guns for the first time while Snake wasn’t allowed. That’s something only she can do while other 3rd parties can’t. And even she’s a Sega character, her game has a Nintendo license, so she’s partially one of the Nintendo family, just like the Fatal Frame characters. Anyways, although we don’t know how Sakurai’s choosing a character in his own way, he still tries to focus on characters that no other character could do the same as each other.

    For the Mii costumes…I was chatting with a friend in Japan regarding to the costumes, predicting what will they bring. He predicted that there will be a Geno costume, and I agreed with that…and you know what? He was right, I was right, we were both right…Geno became a costume and I was so hyped up! Even the final line up of costumes was something that’s interesting, except for the generic bionic suit since it looked terribly worthless. I was also surprised they finally brought up a Sonic character costume which is Tails and Knuckles for the first time, even bringing the classic Namco game character Gil for the first time too. Although I’m not much of a Mii costume collector, maybe I’ll think about purchasing it some time.

    Am I satisfied? Honestly I am, but there are few things that I’m upset about. Midgar stage had only 2 battle musics from FFVII, and there was no remix version of it at all. I though they’ll do something like Ryu’s case, but this time only 2 originals were brought to Smash, which is unsatisfying. Plus there were no special trophies either, not even the trophies of the summon monsters. I was expecting something like Tifa, Aerith, and Sephiroth, but nothing this time. Even there were just only 2 Square Enix related Mii costumes, which there were none like Sephiroth or Vincent, nor even Dragon Quest’s hero character or Randii from Secret of Mana. I don’t know why there are less Square Enix content for this DLC, but I guess I wouldn’t be mattering it too much as I shouldn’t be too greedy and picky on it.
    On the other hand, it is quite sad that most of my predictions never made it to Smash. I do agree on PushDustIn’s Inkling’s case, but even though, I was hoping they could make it as being the most successful game of the year. But as I think about it, I think those “Mii costume characters = disqualified ballot characters” thing was true, as it does make sense why the most popular K.Rool didn’t make it. I wouldn’t be surprised that Wolf didn’t make it, although he was part of my prediction for the returning veteran, he’s still not my favorite. Also it’s sad that Waddle Dee or Medusa didn’t make it either, but I think they couldn’t because Sakurai didn’t want to overrepresent his own series Smash, which may explain why other franchise like Mario, Pokemon, and FE series had more characters than Kirby and KI series. But even though all those characters didn’t make it, I still believe this final DLC made a perfect roster for Smash 4, and for those who didn’t make it can be hoped to be in for the next Smash.

    Furthermore in conclusion, I was never disappointed with the result of the final DLC as I’m well happy to see them there. Although people still think this is just a disappointment, I do believe that Sakurai did a great work on Smash. If it wasn’t for him, Smash wouldn’t be a greatest character fighting game and a celebration of video games with many possibilities. He did a lot of hardships for us, and that’s something we should be thankful of. We can’t be so greedy and picky for something that Sakurai didn’t choose; although there were many choices, some couldn’t add in as it was too difficult or just simply generic. Others may have been unique as he seeked, but time and limitation may have been the obstacle, and that’s something we can’t force to change. Either way, Sakurai did his best by breaking every limits as much as he can, even fought against his chronic disease in his restless times. But for now, it’s time for him have a long time rest. I don’t know if he’ll continue making Smash for NX, but if he did, I’m looking forward for what more new possibilities he’ll make next. But for now…rest easy Sakurai.

    zoniken on December 17 |
  19. Also, are you guys releasing your reaction video somewhere? I wanted to see, please… 😛

    Ar on December 17 |
    • They are up! Thanks for waiting 🙂

      PushDustIn on December 19 |
  20. I don’t get why some people are speculating that Bayonetta wasn’t the “real” ballot winner after disqualifying the non-negotiable/realisable characters which I’m assuming are Goku, Miku, Shrek, and the like.

    Firstly, it’s an online poll. If you REALLY wanted your favorite character to win, you could run a bot that automatically changes your IP and votes for your favorite character non-stop.The ballot winner is then heavily influenced by who has the most votebots.

    Secondly, you should already know by now that the online Smash community has a lot of vocal minorities. I don’t believe that community polls from Smashboards, /r/smashbros or /v/ are good representatives of the wants of the 10 million people who bought the game. Even from a glance you can tell that these communities are skewed towards the older (18+) and male Smash Bros fans. They also create a lot of groupthink. Chances are, if you thought Bayonetta was possible but you hang these communities long enough, they will have you convinced that Bayonetta had no chance of getting in because she was “too sexy” or “uses guns” and you wouldn’t even vote for her in the polls.

    Ian on December 17 |
    • I approve of this comment… it’s even been said here on SG that the hardcore Smash fans are a loud fanbase, but are small compared to the overall audience of Smash. We all have our preferences, but when we inhabit communities of fellow Smash fans, our views tend to be skewed toward that minority. For instance, a lot of hardcore fans want K. Rool, but as PushDustIn has famously said a few times, even his co-workers (who have 3DSes, so they are gamers to some degree) said “why is that Mii wearing a crocodile costume?” when he showed them the K. Rool Mii Fighter outfit.

      Choices like K. Rool, Krystal, etc. may be popular among hardcore Smash fans, but do non-hardcore Smash fans remember (or even want) them? It’s not a question I can answer, but I would lean toward the majority voting for other characters, whether they’re modern characters like Bayonetta, Master Chief, and Steve, or other nostalgic choices like Simon Belmont, Bomberman, and Crash Bandicoot, or possibly even favorite Smash veterans that were cut.

      Bayonetta’s lead in the ballot shouldn’t really come as a surprise… both games were critically acclaimed, her series was on Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony consoles, she had a strong following even in the hardcore Smash community, and I’ve seen her consistently on various gaming news sites’ “who we want in Smash” articles.

      I think a lot of fans are just salty because they know now their favorite won’t get in now if they haven’t already.

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 17 |
      • Let’s not also forget that Bayonetta 2 is indeed selling very well. It is close to reaching 1 million units on the Wii U. Bayonetta 2 sold over 600K units in 2014 with close to 300K in 2015. Bayonetta is still a healthy franchise.

        mrjbrpg on December 18 |
        • What do “non-hardcore” fans want? Shrek & Kakarot?

          J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 19 |
          • That kind of thinking is ridiculous and biased… so automatically every single non-hardcore Smash fan will vote for Shrek or Goku? Non-hardcore Smash fans aren’t all idiots and non-gamers… there are some who just play the games and don’t get heavily involved in the community or the competitive scene. I’m sure a lot of them voted for non-realizable choices, but that doesn’t mean they were all nonsensical ones.

            Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 20 |
    • Despite The critical acclaim that the Bayonetta series receives the sales of the games on the Nintendo consoles barely make a quarter of a million while the first game alone sold over a million copies on other platforms within a year, that’s why some of the people are skeptical about Bayonetta winning the ballot. While some of us believe that riggers may have been responsible, others also claim that posting too many joke characters (Shrek, Michael Jackson, etc.) may have been the primary reason on why She was able to get in. I, and possibly several others, believe that she was brought in mid-ballot along with Corrin and Cloud, and that those early votes did matter. It would explain why they had her going in that trailer and the mid-ballot theory would’ve been less believable if they revealed her long after the ballot was over (April-May 2016 would’ve been the best months to reveal and release). In my opinion, At least it wasn’t Shovel Knight, Inklings, King K. Rool, or a bunch of other unneeded characters.

      It’s not gonna stop me from buying the winner, however.

      Bob on December 17 |
  21. I came in not expecting any of my most wanted, lo and behold, neither Sylux or Snake are in. Isaac I fully expected to be Mii’d, so him not making any sort of appearance is a shocker. And I certainly expected more Mii costumes than that. In the team’s defense, they were probably a skeleton crew by that point, so I can’t blame them too much for the lack of content.

    Bayonetta and Corrin were far from my most wanted, but the sheer detail in their movesets honestly is enough to make me look past their questionable inclusions.

    Overall, I’m satisfied.

    LIQUID12A on December 17 |
  22. Now im really interesting on you guys discussions on why so many fire emblem characters and why wolf got the cut

    Mikael Fernandes on December 17 |
    • The whole “another Fire Emblem character” thing is blown a bit out of proportion.

      Marth and Ike were veterans from Melee and Brawl, respectively.

      Robin was added as a totally unique character for Smash 4.

      Lucina was added in because of “clone development”… she started off as an alt for Marth (like how Alph is for Olimar), but due to extra time during development, she was given an individual slot.

      Roy was added as a Melee veteran for DLC. Considering the other options were Young Link and Pichu, Roy made the most sense… Toon Link is the spiritual successor to Young Link (and no, they would not have changed YL’s moveset to incorporate masks as a veteran), and Pichu… was a joke character, who has a lot of hate in the Smash community and only love for its trolling purposes.

      Sakurai was done with veterans by this time… we got Mewtwo as a bonus for purchasing both Wii U and 3DS (who became paid DLC later), Roy from Melee, and Lucas from Brawl. Corrin is also far more interesting than Wolf, who was a result of “clone development” anyway, as he shared a lot of animations from other characters and was added in at the last minute.

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 17 |
  23. There is one question left: what about the last stage slot? After the October update, one blank space was added to the character and stage slots. And since the three character slots are taken but only two stage slots are taken, what about the third? Did Nintendo ditch the third stage slot or is there something more to it?

    Bob on December 17 |
    • I tried finding the information about it, but I couldn’t piece it together. I’m pretty sure there were only two stage slots (which would be Midgar and Clock Tower) for Wii U, and there was one in 3DS between Mario Maker and Duck Hunt, which to me suggests a failed attempt at making Pirate Ship playable in both Wii U and 3DS. Either way, there are two stage slots after Duck Hunt for the two new ones we got.

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 17 |
    • Could be that there was a stage planned to go with Corrin that got scrapped for whatever reason.

      V_ac on December 17 |
      • Considering the stage placement, it seems doubtful. There’s one among the ones from the last update (Mario Maker and Duck Hunt for 3DS), and two after it.

        Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
  24. Damn, SmashChu just sounded like Sean Malstrom in disguise :v The same boring and rhetorical text talking how much certain decisions, how about game developers should be like factory workers… I hate this type of discuss so much, sorry for that, but I really when someone comes with this excessive ludical and dramatic talk of how much a game designer screwed up your life as a gamer, it’s just bull****, it’s soap opera.

    I’m indifferent about Corrin’s inclusion, never was a big FE fan, I sincerely don’t see a 6th FE character as something serious since we already have 7 Mario characters (9 if we count Yoshi and Wario, 11 if we count the Kongs, freaking 18 if we counting the Koopalings alts for Bowser Jr.), Zelda has 5 characters, but its representation is still bigger than Fire Emblem, because besides the 5 characters, we have 5 stages, 3 assist trophies, 1 Mii Fighter costume and 6 items. Pokémon is even bigger (and I’ll believe it always was and will still be the most representated game in Smash), because we also have 5 characters and 3 stages, but we have the pokéballs and master balls, so we have a portion of each generation of Pokémon represented in the game. Overall, it’s frustraing to see people overrecating on the Fire Emblem representation as a glaring issue, also, you shouldn’t blame Corrin, but Roy an Lucina, the second one should be an alternative costume for Marth, and the first one was brought back because of the fans from Melee, and I have to say, I would be rather frustrated if they included Wolf and/or Snake from ballot, too much potential to make the team to deliver us brand new character and they decide to include an old one, I hated when Roy was confirmed, but not because he is from Fire Emblem, but from Melee, if I wanted to play as Roy, I just need to boot up the old game, same goes for Lucas, Snake and Wolf in Brawl. I’m very glad the finla DLC characters are brand new ones (and Corrin is a Nintendo character, goddamnit, what’s the point of that image?).

    About Bayonetta, first off, I ABSOLUTELY LOVED HER INCLUSION, this is something highly demanded for fans since Bayo 2 and Smash 4’s very announcement, even when Bayo 2 was about to release, I still saw fans wanting the witch in Smash including myself (I saw people with signs of “Sakurai Please” in a Bayonetta theme event at Nintendo World Store, I saw Bayonetta in a bunch of fan rosters even befor both games was released, that’s why I accept Bayonetta as the winner of the Ballot, she was really really demanded), but more because of The Wonderful 101 than Bayonetta itself, I became a Platinum fan because of Wonder Red’s game, and I was highly demanding for a proper Platinum Games reperesentation, of course I would like Wonder Red itself, but I know Bayonetta is the most representing Platinum Games character out there, and I also played her game, It’s outright amazing how Bayonetta plays in Smash just like in her original game, now every time I play Bayonetta, I feel like I’m training to use her in Smash. Can’t wait for her release.

    fabricioogrande on December 17 |
    • I am sure there were several characters that had more “votes” than Bayonetta, & I’m not talking about characters that have nothing to do with video games. Let’s see the results then. It wouldn’t surprise me if among them were Geno & Tails.

      Also, a game that was free with the console doesn’t make it a sale. Duck Hunt came free with the NES.

      J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 18 |
      • Of course it does! People wouldn’t pick the NES with Duck Hunt bundled if it was a bad game, people want quality product at a great value.

        And you can damage control Bayonetta’s entrance as much as you want, she won the ballot and your pick lost. Get over it! If you want to have winners, you must have losers!

        fabricioogrande on December 18 |
  25. Oh my GOD Anvil and SmashChu are salty

    Trogdorbad on December 17 |
    • It’s not just them… I see a lot of salt in these comments (and I’m sure it’s worse elsewhere.) There’s so much salt involved in this whole situation that I’m developing kidney stones and hypertension just from reading it.

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
      • “Biggest problem with Smash announcements is that people will defend them no matter what and yell “salt” to drown out dissenting opinions.”

        Ar on December 18 |
  26. Honestly, the direct was underwhelming. Although I’m hyped like almighty crazy for Bayonetta, I don’t like Corrin. Here is a character who’s dragon transformation is cool, but I don’t feel brings much to the table.

    Cloud actually looks very fun, and I would love to just get my hands on him…

    But Corrin was pretty disappointing. AWESOME FOR FE FANS, but they have gotten a fair lot of love compared to franchises like Zelda, which despite being one of Nintendo’s poster boys got no new inclusions. The Dragon gimmick sounds cool on paper, but in execution it doesn’t seem to crazy or amazing.

    Plus, was this Japan’s choice for a character? Not to be rude, but it seems like Japan is pretty FE crazed, especially for a game that didn’t sell that great and isn’t even worldwide. It seems more like either Sakurai’s personal request (Which I can kinda respect) or advertisement for a game they hope will sell in America thanks to the internet.

    But I guess rip all my character dreams, guess Lucas was the only one who came true. Not as bad as the biased “salt” comments though.

    aguchamp33 on December 17 |
    • I checked Sakurai’s Twitter, but I wouldn’t think Corrin’s inclusion was upon Sakurai’s choice. He was aware that there will be too many FE characters, but this was something decided by the discussion with Nintendo. He was planning to bring a character from a brand new game series, which Splatoon, Chibi-Robo Whip Lash, Xenoblade X, etc. would have been one of the choices. However in the end, Nintendo itself fully agreed to bring FE Fates to Smash, so it wasn’t entirely Sakurai alone’s choice. He was worried from the first, but took bravery to do so, so its really not his own fault.

      zoniken on December 18 |
      • I doubt it. Other games that are coming out are Pokken Tournament, Starfox Zero, Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam, & Hyrule Warriors: Legends.

        J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 18 |
        • So… we’d get another Pokemon, Peppy, Slippy, or Wolf, or Paper Mario instead of a completely original character that can do things none of those others can? Makes sense.

          Note that Hyrule Warriors would probably get an Assist Trophy at best… spin-off characters usually don’t get playable status in Smash.

          Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
          • Another pokémon? Paper Mario? For why? For people go ocean salty in the internet about overrepresentation of a series again? Enough of this junk, please.

            fabricioogrande on December 19 |
          • Or Krystal, Linkle, Impa, Lana, Tetra, funny how you didn’t mention any of those characters. Krystal might not even appear in SFZ as that story takes place before her time.

            J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 19 |
          • @J.G. (The reply link disappeared): I really doubt Linkle and Lana will get anything more than Trophy or (at best) Assist Trophy status. They were made for Hyrule Warriors, which isn’t exactly a first-party game. If we see either of them in a main Zelda title, then maybe.

            I didn’t mention Krystal specifically for the reason you mentioned… I feel that she and Impa are far too overhyped for their importance and moveset potential in the Smash community anyway.

            Tetra is the only viable one I could see, but she’s not really representing a new game… neither is anyone else you mentioned besides Linkle (Lana was in the original Hyrule Warriors, which isn’t exactly new anymore.)

            And despite that all, Corrin is STILL more unique than any of them from an entirely gameplay perspective (aside from Linkle and Lana, maybe… but they’d be on-par.)

            Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 20 |
      • To be fair, out of the listed Cross/Elma, Chibi-Robo, Corrin and Inkling are the most original moveset-wise. With Corrin, we haven’t had a character in Smash with a malleable, transforming body yet. Perhaps Inkling wasn’t chosen because Sakurai wanted to include the ink mechanic after all and it wasn’t technically feasible?

        I would’ve rather had Inkling because Splatoon is obviously the new big IP of this generation of Nintendo, but whatevs…

        Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
        • That makes me wonder. I hope Sakurai would start explaining why the Inklings didn’t make it in the Smash Ballot results. He did explain certain character’s exclusion before, so he should be working on it right now.

          zoniken on December 18 |
          • Inklings didnt’t made because Splatoon was a new IP, nobody had to know that Splatoon would be a blast in popularity, that’s why the opted for the Mii Fighter costume.

            fabricioogrande on December 19 |
          • @fabricioogrande
            That makes sense. Eventually I think I’ve heard Splatoon’s Mii costume was nothing more but an advertisement for Splatoon’s release back then, so that would explain they couldn’t put them in Smash as new fighter no matter what.

            Also, I’ve spoken with a friend in Japan through about Inkling for Smash, and he responded, “I think the costume are better enough as the replacement of the actual characters if they’d failed to enter. Besides the Mii Gunner’s move sets does look perfectly similar to the actual Splatoon’s weapons, despite its explosives and projectiles than inks.”

            But eventually, I think new IPs were limited at that time, which they were limited to Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Punch Out, and Xenoblade.

            zoniken on December 19 |
        • I rather think Splatoon is successfull enough not in need of any promotion. I really seems to be a heck of a game.
          From what I know however Sakurai does not seem to be that kind of man who would even state something like that in public, but rather being very careful in order not to loose any kinf of business relationship. I mean to remember this was stated in an interview, he would be this careful.

          mothes on December 19 |
          • Actually, I believe Splatoon didn’t made it because it’s a new IP, the same goes for The Wonderful 101 and Codename STEAM, they can’t add a character without how much success will be its debut in the market. For a well consolidated series like Fire Emblem, it’s easier.

            fabricioogrande on December 19 |
          • To be fair, Nintendog was considered for Brawl despite being a new IP (Brawl’s project plan was finished July 7th, 2005) [Nintendogs was released April 2005].
            The issue before was the lack of viable newcomers in Sakurai’s eyes** Source:( However between Smash for Wii U and Brawl, Sakurai changed his approach to designing characters, and a lot more possibilities opened up. Pac-Man, Mii Fighters and all Villager were all deemed “un-viable” in Brawl, but very appropriate in Smash for Wii U.

            **I really need to translate this.

            PushDustIn on December 19 |
          • I’m aware that Sakurai changed his view for viable newcomers, but for Nintendogs, a game about Pets, it’s hard to make a fighter from the series, so, he made that incredibly annoying assist trophy 😛 Which also explains why did he opted for a Mii fighter costume instead of the character itself.

            BTW, Wonder Red was my most wanted character, but I knew his chances were incredibly low, even during the ballot time, because of W101’s low sales and popularity, but I’m happy that I got seven trophies and two musics (I was crazy happy when I unlocked Jergingha’s theme, my favorite final boss of all time).

            fabricioogrande on December 19 |
  27. After reading various articles that go deep into smash and sakurai, I decided to be a patron to support their work. If you enjoy them and want to see more, then please consider monthly donations.

    I am looking forward to the evolution of source gaming beyond smash

    Jbrpg on December 17 |
    • Thank you so much for your patronage! Hopefully we won’t disappoint you. Let me known if you have any specific requests in the future!

      PushDustIn on December 17 |
  28. Why wouldn’t Bayonetta have the most votes? If Sakurai wanted her in originally then she would be in at launch. He wasn’t even planning on DLC characters. If they wanted to advertise Bayonetta 2 then they wouldn’t wait until more than a year later, they would add her ASAP like Corrin. Most of a game’s sales happen in the first couple of months of its release. And if she didn’t have the most votes then Nintendo, Namco and Sakurai’s company would literally lose money by picking her. A character DLC’s sales is directly correlated to the characte’s popularity. There’s no conspiracy here, Bayonetta was the clear winner.

    Cheese on December 17 |
    • I honestly think fans are just salty and/or hanging around the hardcore Smash crowd so much that their view of who’s popular is skewed. Everything you said makes perfect sense… Bayo could’ve easily been added in the initial roster or as DLC earlier if Sakurai wanted her in that badly… it’s not like there were any licensing issues, as Nintendo had stuff from Sega and Platinum in Smash already. He obviously came up with interesting gameplay for her too.

      If the top 10 was clearly just Bayonetta, veterans, and characters that couldn’t be realized, it wouldn’t surprise me if they knew halfway into the ballot that she would be the one (especially if the first vote from each IP was the only one that mattered.)

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
    • Not sure about you, but at least I end up buying all DLC fighters anyway. It is a little bit as like as being really hungry: Either you eat this what you can not stand at all (if you don`t have any choice) or you might end up dying hungry. Choose your fate… (not supposed to be a FE pun).
      So of course I will pay, download and play both Bayo and Corrin (Bayo is a cool addition, at least not a Kid Icarus character what I first feared when I saw the beginning of the trailer)

      mothes on December 19 |
  29. To be fair, beyond the Inklings, you’d really have to scrape the bottom of the barrel for more Nintendo representation. As for Fire Emblem outdoing Zelda, most of the other potential Zelda reps (Midna, Tingle, Ghirahim, etc.) were already assist trophies…..except Impa.

    Neoxon on December 17 |
    • At this point in time, I agree… aside the point about Impa, who is scraping the bottom of the barrel, IMO. Pretty much her only incarnations that could fit in Smash are her Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword ones (I really, really doubt her Hyrule Warriors form would be chosen.) Tetra may have been a better choice as a Zelda character.

      But as for “Fire Emblem outdoing Zelda,” a lot of fans tend to forget that Fire Emblem has a changing cast, while Zelda is always Link, Zelda, Ganon(dorf), and changing supporting characters. Fire Emblem has a whole slew of protagonists to choose from JUST from the Lords alone… and many of the games have multiple of them (Genealogy of the Holy War, the first international release, and Sacred Stones to name a few.) And that’s not even scratching the surface, as there are other important characters in each one, plus memorable villains. Fire Emblem could easily have a game full of interesting characters on its own.

      And fans still get mad when “Fire Emblem is over-repped,” while the series that are “under-repped” have mostly the same protagonists / antagonists and throwaway supporting characters unfit for Smash.

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
    • Fire Emblem DID NOT outdid Zelda in Smash representation, besides 5 characters, Zelda has 5 stages, 3 assist trophies, 1 Mii Fighter costume, 6 items and more than 15 songs among the stages.
      I still don’t get what’s the huge problem in having 6 Fire Emblem characters, I’m very sure that if a pokémon had made into it, people would be bitching by the exact same reason, same goes to Super Mario that already have 7 characters. SmashChu quoted a Reddit comment about someone demanding a Nintendo character, I hope they both are happy with Corrin’s inclusion, it’s a Nintendo character, after all.

      fabricioogrande on December 18 |
      • True, and it’s quite odd nobody’s complaining about Mario’s rep. Although there’s 7 characters in the Mario roster, if you at least add the Koopalings too, that’ll be 14 characters total. Plus Mario reps also contains 14 stages (3DS + Wii U + DLC), 4 assist trophies, 72 musics, 14 Smash Run enemies, 160 trophies (3DS + Wii U), 20 items, 12 Mii Fighter head gears, 1-2 Mii Fighter DLC costumes…man, there are tons of Mario related contents out there. I know Mario is the main face of Nintendo which is understandable, but I don’t hear any complaints of Mario reps having too many than any others than FE reps right now; not even I hear any complaints regarding to the Pokemon reps either. So why FE’s being victimized than other “over-repped” franchises? If it’s just “too many swordsman”, then that’s understandable, but other than that, I don’t understand…

        zoniken on December 18 |
    • I do agreed that Impa should’ve been in Smash, as I do think her Skyward Sword appearance is more popular than the Ocarina of Time one (and I do agree using her Hyrule Warriors appearance is impossible since it belongs to Koei-Tecmo, although the design is based from Skyward Sword), but I guess there were difficulties for Impa as Sakurai didn’t know how she’ll work in Smash since she hardly had any iconic actions in the actual series. She could’ve ended up being a clone of Shiek but I think that’s something Sakurai wanted to avoid making more clones in this Smash, even for being a final DLC. But if there would be any plannings for Smash 5, even any plannings to have Impa more action for the new Zelda game, then maybe she’ll be in Smash for the very first time.

      zoniken on December 18 |
  30. My thoughts:

    And that’s me being civil. I’m really considering going back to licensed games.

    Johnny2071 on December 18 |
    • I agree Ice Climbers were a terrible loss… but the fact they wouldn’t work on 3DS or 8-player Smash are what held them back. I’m also pretty sure Sakurai wouldn’t have accepted a solo Ice Climber as a consideration.

      The DLC characters we got are more interesting than Wolf, though, who was composed mostly of recycled animations. For the potential Brawl veterans we could have gotten back, pretty much everyone (Snake, Lucas, Squirtle, and Ivysaur) beat out Wolf in terms of originality. Plus, I’m pretty sure Lucas is more popular in Japan than Wolf.

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
    • I understand your frustration, but persisting on Ice Climbers since the issues that cut them out were constantly proved by the 3DS game itself is just plain innocence. I was never innocent believing that my cut veteran would be back soon via DLC. I’m very glad they didn’t used the Ballot to put a veteran character in the game.

      fabricioogrande on December 18 |
  31. Some of you guys seem really angry after saying things like Smash is not used for advertising and Smash is a celebration of gaming. I think Corrin and Bayonetta disproved both of those points. I see it more as “Sakurai caters more to his Japanese audience” after all, all the articles you guys translate were originally in Japanese which, in turn, is meant to be read by those who can read Japanese, not us Westerners.

    iMACobra on December 18 |
    • So… Bayonetta was the #1 choice in Europe, the top 5 in North America, and the #1 realizable character worldwide… and that’s Sakurai catering to his Japanese audience how?

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 18 |
      • Point of Corrin to be more precise. Bayonetta is a Japanese created character and is more well-known in Japan than Western created characters like Shovel Knight and Shantae. Bayonetta is most “realizable” because Japan AND the West know her unlike the aforementioned two thus better DLC sales all globally. And easier relations for Sakurai and Co. getting rights and deals made with SEGA and Platinum who are both Japanese developers/publishers. Still catering to Japanese audience more than anything.

        iMACobra on December 18 |
        • Excellent point.

          People must realize that a “realizable” character means a ton of things. Bayonetta appeals to the broadest audience possible.

          fabricioogrande on December 19 |
        • I see your point… it does raise an interesting point when Sakurai described the DLC at that point as “fan service.” In the end, Sakurai is a Japanese developer who probably understands his Japanese audience a bit better… doesn’t mean I agree, but it’s still the case.

          I don’t know how much of a chance Shantae and Shovel Knight had in the first place… I’d think characters like Master Chief and Ezio would’ve been more likely to be voted for by a general populous.

          Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 19 |
      • Bayonetta (2) is also relevant. I already did read about somebody on vgchartz, that a local store was suddently sold out about Bayo 2 game copies. There’s some kind of system behind the dlc character choices.

        mothes on December 19 |
    • Hate to criticize and no offense, but yeah those negative reactions does sound like those articles they’ve wrote was hypocritical. I don’t want to think that way, but it does sound that they’ve changed their minds to disprove those articles…

      zoniken on December 19 |
  32. Man can smashchu and TheAnvil get any more

    Markeice Brown on December 18 |
  33. Seriously, I really don’t understand how people can be this salty. This is what happens when you get ridiculously emotionally attached to your character, well you can still do that but when it runs at the cost of causing stupid immature uproars then it is problematic. As silly as an idea of another Fire Emblem Representative is, it is still a great character, bashing other franchises is pretty much bigotry in its own right. The whole anti-third party stance is like a page out of Donald Trump’s speech. And boy, I am going to be enjoying Corrin, Bayonetta, and the salt.

    Constatine on December 19 |
  34. I’ll keep this brief. I still have a lot to work on.

    As a Fire Emblem fan, I honestly didn’t think we have a chance of seeing another character, and I had come to terms with that and was willing to wait until Smash 5. Corrin shocked me and the rest of the FE fans just as much as he did everyone else. Although he’s the equivalent of a reach in the draft, he definitely has MVP-caliber talent, so to speak. Having a moveset based so heavily around his ability to shapeshift is something utterly unique, and I honestly think Corrin could end up a fan favorite just like how Wolf became one despite the controversy around him at first.

    That said, I’ll be surprised if FE doesn’t lose two of its current characters from this game to the next. Smash 5 will probably have Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin, and a newcomer.

    Bayonetta was…a shock. In the sense that I wasn’t sure how to take her inclusion for a while after her reveal. I’m still scratching my head over how she “won” the Smash Ballot–although more from the fact that there was only one Ballot pick. The theory I have so far is that even though there was other “feasible” candidates, they came up with moveset concepts with several of them, and became so enthralled by their ideas for Bayonetta that they decided no one else could compare. And…she definitely does look super-inspired and unique, as if she was pulled straight out of her games. Though there are a lot of other characters I would’ve rather seen make it…it is what it is, you know? Things don’t always go the way they expect, and sometimes these decisions only make sense in hindsight. We’re better off waiting and looking at it a few months from now than jumping to conclusions and acting like most of us were personally slighted in some way.

    Would I have done it differently? Probably. I would’ve put more focus on first party characters than third party, given those who’d been overlooked a real chance. I would’ve brought Wolf back instead of Roy. I would’ve tried to keep DLC going for longer so more Ballot favorites could get in, although I couldn’t force such a decision onto Sakurai with how much pain he has to force himself through to make these things a reality. I know full well what that feels like.

    Overall…it’s bittersweet, a little hollow, in a way, but let no one say Smash 4 isn’t jam packed with content and isn’t the most polished and fine tuned Smash game by far…and we could still see balance patches happening for a while. For now, all we can do is move forward…wherever that leads.

    …So much for brief. >_>

    delzethin on December 19 |
  35. Holy ****, this has turned out as a serious and large discussion for sure: Last time I checked it had 30 comments less, thats a lot for sure. It is a little bit hard to follow this, since it`s structure is not really suited for surch large discussions.

    Well, he [K.Rool] has his strange cannon from DKC 2, which could be pretty unique. It could basically work like Dededes Side Smash but with some randomness as like as with Mr. GW`s judgement day. B – > DKC1 Crown, up+B -> Helicopter thingy from DKC3, Down+B -> Grond Pound from DK64.

    Apart from that, a lot of characters share some similar looking or active moves. With those many characters it seems impossible to me to avoid overlaps in this regard. A lot of fighters have counters (FE, Little Mac) or ground pounds (Yoshi, Bowser, Dedede).

    For characters like K.Rool – the last chance I see them entering Smash is, if a NX Enhanced edition happens. If he and several other fighters like Wolf etc trigger enough value for people buying the NX version despite already knowing the base game and most of it`s content. It could be possible Sakurai reserved them back for those matters. If this does not happen or NX gets a completly new smash, then I just have to give up.

    BTW: The reason why Diddy is in the game, might be, because unlike K.Rool, he is at least still relevant and active in some games. Looks like Dixie did not make it in time for the base game development and was not considered as DLC, not important enough for him as it seems.

    mothes on December 19 |
    • King K. Rool’s best chance to get into Smash is via a new DKC game. Diddy is very well known and is a very famous character. It’d be strange to go K. Rool or Dixie before Diddy, IMO.

      PushDustIn on December 19 |
      • Not even after DKC Returns they reused the Kremlings, instead a half-assed ripoff (maybe to justify the iced donkey kong land, since K.Rool might not have such a weapon to do so). While I would love to see an other villian in the main Mario games instead of bowser (not talking about the rpg series), like Wart or whatever, it was not really a good idea to use a whol new villian for the first or even second DKC game after more than 10 years or so. Just my opinion. I can imagine developers are thinking otherwise about usage of chracters. At the end it is a matter of (limited) creavitity.

        mothes on December 19 |
        • To be fair, the rights to the Kremlings were left with Nintendo in-house. Retro was not given the rights to use them.

          J. G. (@GeneralRayburn) on December 19 |
  36. being honest, i was more excited about corrin than bayonetta on the direct, while corrin may be another fire emblem character which may or may not cause the series to be a far too overrepresented series in smash 4. equal to pokemon in terms of characters and being the 2nd/3rd in playable characters. Corrin/Kamui seems very unique in terms of playstyle but what he comes with on the 3ds version is pretty disappointing (would’ve love a 3DS exclusive stage based on FE: Fates) but the themes he/she comes with on the Wii U seems cool. I am a pretty huge fire emblem fan having played the 2 GBA games released here, shadow Dragon and awakening and also have fates on preorder. as for Bayonetta while she is very unique as a character my only concern is that is she going to be far too OP, as for the fact she was the ballot winner i was actually indifferent about her, as she also wasn’t a character that i expected to win (for me i believed that a character like Shovel Knight or shaunte who had a relatively strong push throughout the ballot would win). bayonetta’s stage looks quite awesome though. In the end my personal ballot picks were Lyn from “fire emblem: rekka no ken” or Zeal from “The Last story” as both characters are ones i wanted to be playable as for Lyn i believed that she would’ve made a far more better female fire emblem rep than Lucina. and for zeal i had played through the last story a while back and found him to generally be a likeable character.

    metricasc02 on December 19 |
    • I’ve seen a few people say that Bayonetta seems OP… at the same time, it seems like she kind of has a high learning curve. Also, despite being able to use her up-B twice in one recovery, it doesn’t seem like each part gets her particularly high on its own. We’ll have to see what the end-lag on Witch Time is before it’s deemed OP.

      I was actually just thinking about Lyn as playable in Smash the other day… she’s a character I’ve wanted in since Brawl. I agree that she would’ve been a better pick than Lucina, but Lucina is a special clone case.

      Zael would’ve been cool too, especially if they could’ve incorporated his wall-running shenanigans.

      Winturwulf (@winturwulf) on December 19 |
  37. I am sincerely surprised at some of these negative reactions I’m seeing. I’m not quite sure what people were expecting, to be honest. I think some people just had unrealistic expectations for the final Smash Direct, while Sakurai seemed to just treat it as nothing more than a Smash Direct which *happens* to be the last one. I was personally blown away by what we got, but maybe I’m just easy to impress.

    People complaining about “over-representation of the Fire Emblem series” have to remember that FE has been around since the NES (technically the Famicom, and has appeared on almost every Nintendo system to date. They clearly have a long history that’s worth celebrating, and a lot of different characters to showcase. I understand the want to have your favorite series represented; if I had my way, he’d have a dozen more Pokemon characters, and Squall or Lightning would have replaced Cloud (yes, I like FF13. I make no apologies for that).

    Bayonetta’s inclusion absolutely STUNNED me. I’ve been on the fence about whether or not I’d want to play her games, as the sexual nature of her character sorta makes me uncomfortable, but I was convinced to give it a try after seeing the Direct, and I was blown away at how fun it was to play. If her Smash incarnation can accurately portray her playstyle in her own games, she’s definitely gonna be one of my new mains.

    Trust me when I say that I can understand the disappointment when your own choice of character doesn’t make the cut. I’ve fantasized about possible movesets for characters like Isaac, Quote, or even Bass, and I know that there’s an extremely low chance any of them will be realized in even the next Smash. But I’d rather appreciate what we *do* get than complain about what we *didn’t*.

    Spiral on December 19 |
  38. I did not expect ANY of this DLC….and when I say “expect”, I mean want. There wasn’t a single thing in that trailer that gave me shivers except the ending. Sakurai clearly has lost his mind. His Crazy Hand is way out of control. I think Master Hand needs to come back and set things straight in the next Smash or Sakurai needs to move on so we can actually get some more NINTENDO characters in this game rather than any….character..from any game..

    The biggest BS about the whole Mii costume stuff is a character like King K. Rool got that outfit during summer, but no word was said as to him not being able to get in. I’d rather Sakurai had told us straight up that Mii costumes for DLC meant that character had no chance in hell of being playable, so as the huge groups voting on these characters wouldn’t be wasting their time/breath for almost 6 months.
    “What an a-hole… ”

    For fans of the character, those costumes were like opening a “pretty” box with a pile of crap inside. Personally, I think most of us would’ve rather had an empty box. I was one of the many in the U.S. and JAPAN that wanted some Donkey Kong representation, but we were all forced to look at it this way: At least we got a King K. Rool Mii Outfit right….RIGHT???..

    mynameisblade on December 19 |
    • Your salt nearly killed my PC from high blood pressure :v

      I hope you’re happy with Corrin, at least he is a Nintendo character. Just don’t come with pseudo-ludical crap cryover like SmashChu did, I fucking hate this type of discuss.

      fabricioogrande on December 19 |
    • Remember that Sakurai said that he’ll start doing fan-service after the 2nd DLC wave, so he was likely reading the ballots during the period. Whatever character he has dismissed he has turned into a costume. From what I’ve seen, Bayonetta has likely been picked and under development around August or September, meaning that those who have voted after wave 3 DLC, such as myself, would’ve just not vote at all if we saw this predicament. Would’ve been less likely for the theory to be real if Bayonetta was revealed and released in Spring 2016. I do feel underwhelmed from the last direct due to the fact that only one standalone fighter was based off the ballot. Would’ve been better if they added the runner-up of the ballot as well.

      Bob on December 20 |
  39. I mean no disrespect to the authors and/or opinions of Source Gaming when I say that a few of these reactions come off as entitled.

    It sounds like some set their expectations a little too high. :/

    MaskO' on December 19 |
    • Hey, when it comes to additional game content that we will be spending money on I think a certain amount of entitlement is warranted.

      Spazzy_D on December 19 |
  40. I’m going to re-iterate something I posted on Smashboards. Something I’ve come to believe in. I may be repeating something already said (there’s a lot to read here) but I digress.

    The Sakurai mentality for Smash 4 for character selection; the mantra was to choose character who had something “only they could bring” to Smash Bros. So you have Little Mac’s punch-only/KO meter, Rosalina’s puppet, Ryu’s SF moves, Bayo’s extensive combos.
    Most if not all newcomers in Smash 4 have this characteristic.

    But look at a classic character like Mario or DK, or Link. Basic moves. Simple moves. No governing mentality. A “meat and potatoes” character. No frills. A few translated moves but nothing “special”.
    I pose a question: How many characters (new) in Smash 4 are meat and potatoes? The answer is VEEERY few. Villager is perhaps the closest.

    I personally believe this has greatly narrowed the character selection process for Smash 4 and DLC but going for the super-technical gimmicks in characters rather than the fun but simple classic designs of the previous entries. That by it’s very standard auto-killed a lot of fan dreams right off the bat.

    The Smash 4 Sakurai mentality was a blessing and a curse. I hope it doesn’t return.

    Adam Bell (@bellboy_64) on December 20 |
    • Sakurai’s mentality for character selections were ALWAYS THE SAME in every single Smash game. In Melee, we had Peach’s float and turnip pulling, Ice Climbers’ dual character gameplay, Zelda’s ability to transform into Sheik in the middle of a Match, Marth and Roy’s counter and shield breaking abilities, all of this stuff is considered uniqueness for these characters and weighted so much in their inclusions. In Brawl, we have Snake’s speciality in explosives, Pokémon Trainer’s 3-in-1 gameplay style with a stamina mechanic to differentiate him from Zelda and Sheik, Samus got the ability to shed her armor to become Zero Suit Samus, Sonic’s single button inspired gameplay, Olimar and his living projectiles. Sakurai never stopped following this metality when including character in Smash, why should this be an issue now?

      I Believe Smash 4’s newcomers are the most creative ones since Melee, they are a NEED in order to add depth and a fresh sensation of a new game, including mostly common characters would be a huge signal of aging, Sakurai wants every single game to age very well, like Melee.

      fabricioogrande on December 21 |
    • And believing that Sakurai doesn’t change the veterans is a huge mistake, he changed a bunch of veterans in Brawl (some for better and some for worse, sadly), for example, he gave Mario a brand new move, surely the Fludd became completely worthless but at least it’s useful now in Smash 4, he changed Link’s grab, Kirby’s hammer, Falco’s Reflector, Luigi’s Cyclone, Jigglypuff’s Rest, Ganondorf’s side special and some animations. Surely in Smash 4 we didn’t see big changes, but they were made as well, some of them were demonstrated in April 2014’s Smash Direct, like Samus’ final smash not forcing the switch to ZSS any more, Lucario’s aura becoming stronger and more influential, Pit’s new moves inspired by Kid Icarus Uprising, King Dedede getting a change in his side special and a new Final Smash (Thank God, I hated so much those summoning FSes), Zero Suit Samus recieving jet heels and brand new attacks, same goes for Zelda and Sheik, I consider the changes in these three characters the biggest ones, since the transformation mechanic was cut.

      fabricioogrande on December 21 |