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Filed under: Industry People, Masahiro Sakurai, Super Bros. Smash For 3DS, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, Super Smash Bros. Series

Featured Comments #9

Featured Comment

This post contains comments from February 28th – March 5th! Let’s see what you guys had to say.

So this is quite a long article to respond to, but I wanted to highlight some parts of it. For the most part I do agree with what shane3x has said in the article. shane3x does reference a lot of Source Gaming articles, and I’m really happy to see people use the site as a source as that’s what I envisioned the site as. I should also give a shout-out to CartBoy’s article Did Corrin “deserve” to be ‘Super Smash Bros’ DLC? Which was similarly well written and inspired from a lot of the posts here.

I don’t believe Lucas was part of the original plan to become a DLC character and only returned due to fan support. —Smash Ballot and DLC Characters

Totally agree with this. I do believe Gematsu Leaks was done by someone who was working in Bandai Namco. Part of the later part of the Gematsu Leaks states that the team was debating on if Lucas or Ness would become DLC. What a lot of people might label as an odd coincidence, I think it was foretold. Anyway, TheAnvil and I have a whole series on the Gematsu Leaks which can be read here (It’s 3 parts, so it’s quite detailed).

Source Gaming has already covered most of the points in regardings to the poor handling of the Smash Ballot. For the most part I agree with the general sentiments from the team. It definitely is a good read and something to keep in mind. We know Wolf polled well in the majority of credible online polling and looking at all the various factors for him we know he would have polled well within the official Smash Ballot. I’ve already expanded on those factors and why he may possibly not have been included in this entry to the series so I won’t repeat myself here.  —Smash Ballot and DLC Characters

Yeah, it’s a real shame about Wolf. I almost wish I wasn’t right when I wrote the Is Wolf a Shoo-In? article, but I saw the writing on the wall after Cloud’s reveal. It became evident that Wolf’s only chance was if he came in last minute. However, Sakurai may have chosen Corrin to be the last DLC character, if the 3DS character slots are to be believed. Of course, Corrin could have been decided at the same time, or around Bayonetta too — we just don’t know. In the end, I feel that Corrin was chosen in order to feature a brand new character to ensure the roster wouldn’t quickly feel dated. This is because Sakurai confirmed that Corrin was chosen out of a list of characters to promote an upcoming game.  Of course, some people will point to Wolf and say that he could have promoted Star Fox: Zero but, as Sakurai has stated numerous times — it was his unique fighting style that drew Sakurai to choose him. Interestingly, Sakurai does confirm keeping the roster feeling fresh is the major draw of Smash after the development had finished.  Even though Corrin does share some animations with some other fighters, he has a unique gimmick (long reach, dragon transformation).

Anyway, thanks to shane3x for the heads up about his article!

Chris W.

Hate can eventually turn to love for a character when given enough time. I actually didn’t know that Wolf was so despised at first so I was kind of surprised he didn’t make it into the next game after people grew to love him. Eventually all salt for x character is meant to die down. I remember during the Pac-Man reveal trailer that the minority of internet comments mentioned that he was a wasted character slot. I can’t believe they didn’t see this coming when it was known that Nintendo was working with Bandai Namco to make Smash 4. One lesson to take fro this is to be happy with what’s there and try not to overthink about the roster or other Smash content too much.  —History Repeats Itself: The Post-Smash Salt Storm from Brawl to Wii U

I remember the major salt towards Wolf after Brawl’s roster was revealed. For a long time I was actually a lurker within the Smash community (I think my SmashBoards account dates back to 2007), and it was interested seeing how opinions have changed. I plan on doing another Mega Smash Poll — possibly this month to see if the community’s opinion about certain characters, stages, etc has changed. I think it’s important to track this stuff so we can better know our own community.

Mettaru

At the same time, Smash 4 did a better job of bringing new franchises to Smash than Brawl did. Brawl added character from 4 previously unrepped Nintendo franchises, Warioware, Kid Icarus, Pikmin, and ROB. Of these one is arguably just anouther Mario spinoff similar to Yoshi (Wario) and anouther is arguably more of a peripheral than an actual game character (ROB). Smash 4 brought in reps from Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Punch-Out, Xenoblade, Duck Hunt, and whatever franchises you want to tie to Miis. Smash 4 also repped 5 new 3rd party franchises in comparison to Brawl’s 2.–History Repeats Itself: The Post-Smash Salt Storm from Brawl to Wii U

Yeah, this was very much Sakurai’s focus. Sakurai actually discussed it after Brawl in an interview which we are working on translating for everyone. Either way, you can clearly see it was a focus whenever you read an interview with Sakurai/read his columns from Smash for Wii U/3DS.

xkan

I remember back when Brawl was announced/coming out, I was a happy person off the internet, so never heard how anyone aside from my friends were taking to the game, nor who was in it beyond the trailer that had Snake revealed at the end. I didn’t even know Sonic or Ike were in it, despite having grown up with Sonic and loving Path of Radiance long before I played Brawl and such. xD

It’s a shame, but little surprise, to hear how that’s how it was back then too! Isn’t there some sort of thing people call the “Zelda Cycle” that applies there too? It may just be a general fandom thing.

History Repeats Itself: The Post-Smash Salt Storm from Brawl to Wii U

Yeah, I really think the Zelda Cycle is true. I remember when TP first came out a lot of people hated the game. And now…it’s a well beloved game. Wind Waker followed the same trajectory too. I think more people will like Skyward Sword in three years. I think Nintendo fans don’t know what they want. I hear people complain that Star Fox: Zero is too similar to Star Fox 64 and then complain when Color Splash isn’t the same as Paper Mario 64!

Mikael

you guys sure love to pick on wolf fans. also,i bet when the possible smash 5/smash nx comes out,a fire emblem character will get the cut. therefore,a huge salt wave will come. i just bet on it —–History Repeats Itself: The Post-Smash Salt Storm from Brawl to Wii U

We don’t like to pick on Wolf. We actually like the character. He was one of the main characters I played as in Brawl (Wario was #1 obviously), and I do miss him in Smash for Wii U/3DS. Spazzy_D even wrote a thoughtful memorial about the character.  (Which was recently followed up by jedisquidward, writing about Snake which is a very well written article). It’s just that everyone was saying Wolf was a shoo-in, and we realized that no– he wasn’t. After that, people thought that Wolf was STILL coming back despite Sakurai confirming that DLC development had ended…. So no, we don’t love to pick on Wolf fans. We just try to stomp out misinformation/baseless accusations. Unfortunately, it was two instances centered around Wolf. If the Ridley shadow conspiracy theory was happening when SG was in full gear, we would have been seen as anti-Ridley too as we would have tried to end that baseless accusation.

The Forever Jigglypuff Lover

Most of these are false because:
1. Jigglypuff is a female in Smash 64 and Pikachu was always male in all the smash games.
2.Whoever said that Jigglypuff was added as a “weak” character is a fucking idiot.
3.There IS evidence that Jigglypuff was added because it was a similar resemblance to Kirby you idiot.
4.I will murder anybody who tried to get rid of Jigglypuff in any of the games.

That is all and you need to do more research because it seems like you are not well educated. Bye bye! —Things You May Not Know About Jigglypuff

Already responded on the post, but this is just a reminder–if you are going to refute my research you need to show research of your own. Just because you believe it to be true doesn’t make it actually so. I also enjoyed this commentor’s name.

Did you check any of the sources?

1. Sex/Gender does not exist in Blue/Red/Green. Sakurai had confirmed on the official Smash website that Pokemon in Smash 64 do not have a sex.
2. You just called Sakurai an idiot, multiple times as he’s said this 2 times (Once during Smash 64 and another time in Melee).
3. Source? The only thing I’ve been able to find is Sakurai’s FE 25th Anniversary interview which we translated. In that he states secret characters were chosen for their ease of development. Before that Sakurai NEVER said anything close to Jigglypuff being chosen because of its’ resemblance to Kirby.
4. You might need help.

Please learn how to do proper research before telling people to do it themselves. Bye!

Octavian

Something else you guys forgot to mention is a file in Brawl’s data called “mariod” which might be the team’s second attempt at making Dr. Mario a fighter. —The Definitive Unused Fighters List in Smash

Again, already responded but I’ll post the response here too.

I’m conflicted on this, and I even brought it up to the fine folks on TCRF Wiki. There hasn’t been a consensus on this and since the data for mariod is so little it’s very difficult to know if it was just a “debug Mario” (which is the theory) or Doctor Mario. Personally, I lean towards a second Doctor Mario as mariod is how Doctor Mario is referred to in Smash for Wii U and 3DS. I guess I should add all that information into the list though!

I really want to recreate this whole post. Parts of it really need to be cleaned up and all the sources has been translated into English but SutaMen. Also, I’ve improved my writing since I wrote this and can just create a better post. That’ll be my next project after I finish this current one 🙂

Octavian

36 “Pramin” [reworked Pichu]?? Where are you guys getting that from? As much as I’d want that to be the case I don’t that’s the case. —All About Ryu and Roy’s Files

This is because Plusle and Minun does make sense for that file name. It’s not 100% confirmed, so it’s only speculation. I discuss it in The Definitive Unused Fighters List in Smash.

PushDustIn
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4 comments
  1. So… just curious, do you think all the DLC characters were planned on the original project proposal for Smash Wii U/3DS (sans Bayonetta and Corrin) or do you think all the DLC characters weren’t planned until the game was near completion?

    epicmartin7 on March 8 |
  2. To be fair, while I believe the Zelda cycle to be true with a lot of game series, I am pretty sure Paper Mario fans know what they want.

    Shrug, I admire the developers for trying new things, and I look forward to the new game, but I do dream of the day when they will make a traditional Paper Mario game with partners, a grand story, exp, secrets and hidden bosses, extra quests/content, and badges. (I would love the on stage combat to make a return too. XD)

    Smasher44 on March 9 |
  3. i have to disagree. corrin is not that original at all. it share many moves alongside the other characters,including the infamous counter. and transforming into a dragon does not make him unique what so ever,it just give him a touch

    Mikael on March 10 |
    • The counter is one move though. You can’t ignore the drilling dash attack and down-air, the wings that push him forward with his back-air (admittedly similar to R.O.B., but more range), the two separate attacks in his neutral-b, his side-b that can hold enemies in place for a limited time, and his forward smash that has a hitbox while charging. I can understand people not liking his inclusion, but that’s no reason to neglect the actual unique traits he has. While I acknowledge that his dragon transformations are just aesthetic effects in terms of moves like his up and down throw, the transformations do add extra range and sweetspots for most of his other moves that utilize it.

      Spiral on March 17 |