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Filed under: Industry People, Masahiro Sakurai, Super Bros. Smash For 3DS, Super Smash Bros. (N64), Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Super Smash Bros. Series, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

Featured Comments

Featured-Comment

Congrats to KL-Cobalt for making the 6,000 comment on Source Gaming!

 

I’m a little behind on Featured Comments — sorry about that.

This article looks at comments made from the October 28th- November 5th (Japan time)!

Remember, don’t insult other posters. If you insult other posters, your post that you might have spent so much time on might not get approved, and thrown in the trash. Stay classy!

Spiral

I also have to wonder why people bring up Pit as an excuse for not having permanent flight when Pit doesn’t have permanent flight. Or flight at all, actually. Neither in the original nor in Uprising can Pit fly on his own, either he uses the Wings of Pegasus or Palutena gives him the power temporarily. The only game I can find him having constant flight in is Of Myths and Monsters, but I don’t know a thing about that game besides what I read on the wiki, so I can’t say much about it.

Also, feel free to look up the boss fights against him in any game and tell me how much time he spends on the ground versus the air. Aside from Metroid 1 and the second fight in Prime 3, he does spend more time in the air than on the ground (again, can’t say for Other M ’cause I never played it). That still leaves Super Metroid, Zero Mission, Fusion, Prime 1, and the first fight in Prime 3 where he has an aerial focus. To say it again, since this point seems to keep slipping through: I do *not* think Ridley needs to maintain permanent flight to be a character in Smash. He can still have an aerial focus just like the characters you’ve mentioned. All I’m pointing out is that he *does* spend a lot of time attacking from the air. That does *not* have to translate to permanent flight, but it *is* a part of Ridley’s fighting style.

 

From: Featured Comments

This is a good point about Pit vs. Ridley. Pit does have a logical reason for not being to fly around freely.

Xkan

Ashley was my most-wanted, and I’m glad she made it in as an assist trophy. I like the move set and such given here, they sound reasonable and true to her character. Whether she would speak or not is another thing to consider as she has a few one-liners attached to her too. I can easily hear a taunt going, “Laaaaaameee” (though of course that would only be fitting for the attitude depicted in the NA version… xD)

From: Dream Smashers – Ashley

I’d be really happy if Ashley made it into the next Smash. With her assist trophy and her getting a costume, I feel that she has a decent shot.

By the way, if anyone hasn’t seen XKan’s translation comparison of Ashley’s Song in English and Japanese, make sure to check it out!

Brandon

“Kid Icarus Uprising development didn’t even start off as a Kid Icarus title. It started off as a Star Fox game. Nice try.”

Not really.

Uprising didn’t start off as “anything”, per se. After Iwata came up to Sakurai to ask him to make an original game for the upcoming 3DS, Sakurai initially thought of a game that would switch between aerial and grounded combat. After that, Iwata and Sakurai decided to find a Nintendo series that would fit their new game idea the best. Star Fox WAS considered, but they ultimately went with Kid Icarus because Sakurai felt that IP fit his design better. In its very initial state, Uprising was simply just a blank slate. It didn’t start off as Star Fox.

From: Featured Comments

That’s true. However, saying that Sakurai chose to work on Kid Icarus simply out of personal bias just because of affinity for Pit via Brawl, is wrong.

haruhisailormars

“Ridley, on the other hand, is consistently shown as “way bigger than Samus”. ”

Someone hasn’t played Other M. He was a juvenile Raptor chicken thing in that. Some have suggested making that playable and turning full blown Ridley through Final Smash. Can’t say I agree with that one but it is just another way around it.

This is the point I would make about Ridley through “going there”. There have been many reasons provided to justify Ridley’s inclusion over the years by many of us that wanted it from the start. Things like “if Ridley is too big Olimar is too small” get dismissed by people but can anybody on the internet say for certain that Sakurai thought of things like Olimar at the time?

That is what makes me convinced some are just saying it because Sakurai said it. They discard stances like Olimar’s size and NES Ridley likely because they believe Sakurai thought of this when in truth he probably hasn’t.

When you are thinking of characters on the spot like he is you will come to very different conclusions to people like me who thought about Ridley for years. And I am of the opinion that Sakurai can find a way to do it. It just requires thinking outside the box (like Liquid pointed out already).

TLDR version: we don’t know what led Sakurai to conclude Ridley is too big. Don’t rule it out as somebody who put comments in the ballot may have given him “the idea” that makes him work.

From: Featured Comments

One thing about Smash is that it must mix a bunch of universes together while keeping the universes in tact. In Other M, Ridley can still pick up Samus, and is still pretty big. Downsizing Ridley might break the Metroid universe in Smash.

This is different with Olimar, because he’s not sized against the other characters. He’s never met any of them in his games.

There is some of that (saying it just because Sakurai stated it). But there’s also trying to understand why it’s an issue so we can come up with ways to fix it.

I’ve said it in the past, and I’ll say it again — if the Metroid team can create a version of Ridley that is able to become a fighter in Smash, I think it’d would erase a lot of the barriers Ridley has.

Mettaur

“The current Ganondorf moveset just wouldn’t fit on Black Shadow’s character.”

Would it not though? I’ll fully admit my knowledge about the F-Zero series is severely lacking, but after a bit of looking into Black Shadow, Ganondorf’s current moveset really doesn’t seem at that ill-fitting.

Looking at Black Shadow’s character he doesn’t seem to exist for any other reason than for the sake of being the bad guy. Every facet of his character from his physical appearance to his personality to even his name are about classically villainous as you can get. There isn’t much here to work with beyond the fact that Black Shadow is a big scary villain, and since Ganondorf’s current moveset essentially boils down his entire character to “big scary villain” it might actually be a better fit for Black Shadow.

Now Frostwraith argues Black Shadow should be based off his F-Zero machine the Black Bull since Captain Falcon is based off the Blue Falcon. I’m not entirely convinced Falcon’s moveset is at all based on his F-Zero machine, however this is still a reasonable line of thinking as its the only thing that really differentiates him from the other racers from a gameplay perspective.

Looking at stats in F-Zero only 4 are actually shown to the player: weight, body, boost, and grip. Weight seems to differ slightly from game to game while the other 3 stats remain consistent. The Black Bull has the second highest weight of any non-custom machine in GX, I’m assuming its similarly heavy in other titles. It has the highest possible rank of A in body, a stat that determines both damage dealt when ramming other machines and the machine’s own durability, effectively both its offensive and defensive power. It also has an A in grip which determines handling. The only remotely speed based stat is boost which determines the effectiveness/length of boosts once activated, in this area the Black Bull has the lowest possible rank of E. The picture I’m getting from this is that the Black Bull is a powerhouse both offensively and defensively, capable of easily smacking around other vehicles with its superior handling but probably not all that great at actually winning races due to ineffective boosts.

Based on these stats I’d expect Black Shadow to be a character with both strong attacking and defensive power, likely a hard hitting heavy-weight, who’s easy to use but a bit on the slow side. This makes it seem pretty cut and dry, however F-Zero GX is somewhat notorious for showing the player inaccurate stats. The Black Bull’s actual stats in that game tell a different story. Testing of GX has shown the the Black Bull does indeed have the highest top speed in the game though its acceleration is among the worst. Its body and handling stats also aren’t as good as the displayed stats would have you believe and its boost is not quite the worst of the batch.

This discrepancy may be due to the fact that GX simply copies its stat ranks/grades from F-Zero X, a game which (as far as I can tell though I’ve not found any testing done to the extent of GX) had accurate stats. From what I’ve read, in this game (and Black Shadow’s first appearance) the Black Bull really was more about smashing up opponents than out speeding them. I’ve not been able to find hidden stats for X nor other two F-Zero games Black Shadow appeared in, GP Legend and Climax, so its hard to gauge how the Black Bull played in those games as I’ve not played them myself. However, I was unable to find any mention of the stats for those games being inaccurate, so for the time being I have to assume they’re correct and that the Black Bull plays as advertised in those three games.

This leaves us with something of a discrepancy between how the Black Bull is depicted, however from what I can tell the slower but more powerful variant shows up more often than the faster but more frail one at three games to one. The game’s descriptions of the Black Bull also seem to build on X’s version, talking about how the machine is a destructive force capable of taking a lot of punishment, and how it was supposedly built with the purpose of being able to easily destroy other machines, which is in line with Black Shadow’s goal to kill Captain Falcon during a race.

Given that, I gotta say powerful, heavy, and slow sound like they’d fit just fine with Black Shadow. Adding to that, I don’t think Black Shadow would look odd using any of the moves Ganondorf currently has apart from the final smash and the custom that involves his sword, both of which would presumably be changed. I also don’t think Black Shadow would be lacking any substantial part of his character if given this moveset (because if we’re being honest there doesn’t seem to be much there). Now none of this is to say I at all expect Black Shadow to take Ganondorf’s moveset and the concern about including a character just for the sake of keeping an existing moveset present in the franchise is reasonable enough. However, if we’re just asking the question “Would Ganondorf’s current moveset be a good fit for Black Shadow?” I believe the answer to be a resounding yes.

From: Featured Comments

I’m not an expert on F-Zero lore, but a lot of the moves just wouldn’t work for Black Shadow. I don’t think a slow moveset would still fit Black Shadow because he is from a racing game. Then, on top of that the magic powers that Ganondorf has in Smash wouldn’t be applicable to Black Shadow. Black Shadow has some magical powers– like being able to summon Blood Falcon out of Captain Falcon, or magically bind Captain Falcon. They could easily pull stuff from the F-Zero anime as well.

UG

Honestly 7 new characters seem a lot. I think 5 is more likely if we get new characters. As Zelda the big seller for NX, it wouldn’t surprise me if we get a newcomer from Zelda.

From: Is “Smash for Switch” going to be an ENHANCED port? [Discussion]

I think 5-7 is the likely number of new characters. It really depends on a lot of factors we don’t know: how long have they been working on the port? how many people? Will they still update the 3DS?

J. G. (@GeneralRayburn)

“The Wii U would’ve cost more just for the graphic/animation alone.”

If that were the case, then Super Mario Maker shouldn’t be a $60 game. It’s a $60 game because of all the content it has and its playability.

“Kid Icarus Uprising development didn’t even start off as a Kid Icarus title. It started off as a Star Fox game. Nice try.”

I find that hard to believe, given that Sakurai had this Kid Icarus itch ever since Brawl.

“Those titles also have a LOT less characters. Street Fighter IV, which sports a much bigger roster than its’ sequel, has several clones. I’m sure it’s the same with the other games too.”

This tells me that you clearly never played or seen Street Fighter IV. Until you have actually seen the game, you can make the assumption that each character is uniquely animated. I have the game, and I can confidently say that the characters who you’re questioning as “clones” are not just copied and pasted. Here are screens of Ryu, Ken, and Akuma’s different attacks, and you can judge for yourself.

http://iplaywinner.com/ryu-ssf4
http://iplaywinner.com/ken-ssf4
http://iplaywinner.com/akuma-ssf4

From: Potential Characters for the Next Smash Roster [Part 2]

If the amount of content determined the price alone, then Hyrule Warriors:Legends would be an even more expensive on the 3DS.

For the Kid Icarus: Uprising reply, see above. I really think that “itch” is in your head.

A lot of Ryu, Ken, and Akuma’s moves are visually similar. Ken and Ryu just switched their Neutral Jump Light Punch and Diagonal Jump Light Punch it seems. The specials are very close, just different versions of them. That seems exactly like clones in Smash.

KL-Cobalt

To add on the point of Sakurai not liking remasters – He didn’t handle Nightmare in Dreamland on the GBA, it was mostly Shinichi Shimomura (Who handled Dream Land 2, Dream Land 3, and 64 Crystal Shards – dubbed “The Dark Matter Saga” by fans, who seemingly left the series and hasn’t been heard from since. Sakurai provided creative imput, but that was it.

Likewise, the remake of Super Star on the DS was directed by Shinya Kumazaki, the most recent director of the series and the one who has directed just about every main Kirby title since that remake.

That being said, Spring Breeze in Super Star was essentially a remake of Dream Land, with copy abilities added, shorter length, and Kabula is no where to be seen (although added in the remake and has become a staple in the series since.)

 

 

My only worry is the Gamecube controller adapter and the various multiplayer modes. Based on the trailer we are given, the only way to play multiplayer on one screen so far that’s shown is with both joypads used by two people, while the other times multiplayer is shown, it’s with each person with their own Switch, or with the NBA 2K segment, two Switch systems and four people playing, each with a joypad.

I think that’s the big reason why Smash was omitted, as I’ve seen some who wanted to see Smash – but disappointed it wasn’t the ‘eSports’ segment instead of Splatoon. That being said, would there be a USB port on the actual system, would the adapter even be compatible? And how exactly would multiplayer even work for the thing? Would it be traditional like Mario Kart, or would each player have to use their own system, like the case for Splatoon?

From: Is “Smash for Switch” going to be an ENHANCED port? [Discussion]

[Combined two comments from the same post]

That’s a good point to add!

We are planning on doing a full discussion on controller options and a Smash for Switch! If you guys want to see a particular discussion, let us know in the comments!

MagcargoMan

There’s no point in keeping him at all. Kid Icarus does not deserve three characters. Pit and Palutena is enough until the series gets a larger amount of games.

Melee style clones are even worse. Smash 4 took a huge step back by returning to them.

From: Featured Comments

If they aren’t prioritized when making sequels, and don’t replace unique characters, I really don’t see the harm of clone characters.

 

 

4 comments
  1. Hyrule Warriors Legends is a “deluxe” edition of Hyrule Warriors, a 1.5 year old game. As I stated before, developers always get away with releasing the same game with more content so that you end up paying twice. Street Fighter is the most known culprit of this. Additionally, they probably wanted to port to the 3DS because of the large market it has compared to the Wii-U.

    How often does Sakurai “redesign” characters that he has no affiliation with? He’s the reason why Pit looks the way he does today. He could have made him look like his original NES appearance for Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but didn’t. Pit wasn’t even able to turn his bow into two blades. That was Sakurai’s idea. You are implying he has no Kid Icarus bias, so then why did he choose to give Dark Pit, of all people, his own character slot? Why does he deserve it? “All in my head”, right.

    Ryu and Ken both have the Ansatsuken fighting style which looks basic and straightforward in appearance, which is why you may point out similarities in their move set. They were both meant to have the same fighting style. Pit & Dark Pit were meant to have different weaponry, but Sakurai still insisted he had to be a character, god help us all.

    Ryu & Ken play differently in SFIV. Ryu is more of a zoner while Ken has to be played more in the mix-up game. Not just a simple tweak, a move that a character should have had all along, or a “different” Final Smash. Smash for Wii-U & 3DS came out in 2014. SFIV came out in 2008.

    backup368 on November 8 |
  2. “I don’t think a slow moveset would still fit Black Shadow because he is from a racing game.”

    I don’t really buy into the idea that all F-Zero characters need to be fast because F-Zero is fast. If Smash got more Sonic characters would they all have to be fast due to that series’ emphasis on speed? Do all Mario character have to have great jumps and recovery moves because they’re from a platformer? Relative to other F-Zero characters Black Shadow seems to have less emphasis on speed and more on power. Relative to his own series it makes sense to have him be a tank. Even just looking at his body type its hard to see him filling any other role.

    Looking at the Samurai Goroh assist trophy he doesn’t move especially quickly despite being from F-Zero. He’s also one of the assist trophies that moves in a similar manner to a playable character so it seems like a fairly safe assumption that if he did make it into the game his movement wouldn’t be all that different from what we see of his AT. It doesn’t seem like Sakurai believes F-Zero characters need to be fast.

    “Then, on top of that the magic powers that Ganondorf has in Smash wouldn’t be applicable to Black Shadow.”

    Considering Ganondorf’s darkness is purely for cosmetic effect this isn’t much of an issue. You could remove or reskin the darkness effect on Ganondorf’s moves and his moveset would remain functionally identical.

    You may not even need to go that far though. I’m fairly certain Falcon’s fire moves in Smash aren’t actually based on anything, hell the darkness effect isn’t really reminiscent of anything Ganondorf has ever done either. Ganondorf’s magic tends to be more light based along with occasionally fire or lightning based as Ganon. He presumably got saddled with the darkness effect because he’s evil and/or has an association with darkness in some games. If being evil and having an association with darkness is all you need for the darkness effect to be considered suitable for your character, I see no reason the guy named BLACK SHADOW shouldn’t be just as eligible. You even said yourself that he does show off some vaguely magical abilities. Furthermore we already have a precedent set for F-Zero characters getting nonsensical elemental effect on their moves in Captain Falcon. Black Shadow having darkness moves makes just as much if not more sense than Falcon using fire.

    Mettaur on November 8 |
  3. Shh, don’t point out his bias or he might condescend you again.

    a on November 8 |
  4. “and don’t replace unique characters”
    Falco got in over Wolf in Smash 4 despite the latter being much less of a clone.

    “I really don’t see the harm of clone characters.”
    I already explained it in depth, but to sum things up:
    – wasted potential in movesets (Ganondorf, Toon Link)
    – padding that bloats the game and makes 100% completion more of a grind
    – overepping series (Star Fox in Brawl, Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem in Smash 4)
    – adding characters that aren’t even needed in an All-Star game (Dr. Mario) or wouldn’t have gotten in on their own merits (Roy)

    MagcargoMan on November 9 |